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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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CA Charging System

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phil(va)

02-06-2005 13:22:06




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I bought a CA that has been converted from 6 to 12 volts. Problem is it charges too high, up around 17 volts on my meter and the original ammeter is showing about 20 amps. I know the stock charging system was regulated with the light switch, but of course that is kaput. Lights are via ordinary toggle now. It has original generator, or appears to be original. It is a Delco Remy, but there is no screw on back for regulating the third brush like manual says. The person who converted it appears to have removed the cutout on top of the generator and replaced it with a resistor, which registers about 1 ohm across its connections on my meter. Of course there is no voltage regulator. I know Ohm's law is V = i * r. Or r = V / i. It appears to me, using that law that I need a resistor of about 5 ohms, since volts should be about 14.4 when charging and amps should be about 3. Does that sound right? Anyone else have similar experience with a CA 12 volt conversion?

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Misfire(CO)

02-07-2005 20:49:06




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 Re: CA Charging System in reply to phil(va), 02-06-2005 13:22:06  
Phil,

You didn't say whether your 12v CA is positive ground or converted to negative ground, but here are some suggestions:

First, if the CA is positive ground, you can convert it. The starter won't care since field reversal counters armature reversal within the starter motor, and it will run the same direction either way. The only thing you will have to worry about is any electronics that may have been added (1,000 stereo for your rap music), or permanent magnet motors. (radiator fan or windshield wiper? -Not too many of those on '40s A-Cs)

Just by luck I was putting a Delco alternator on a WC about two weeks ago. The Delco was ordered for a '68 Jeep with 225 engine, because they used a little Motorola alternator for that application that drops right into the A-C 201 CID with minimal clearance problems. Now there's a Delco-type replacement for the Motorola. Anyhow, the kid at Checkers Auto ordered a regulator for me. This kid was born since both generators and external alternator regulators went the way of LP records, and imagine my surprise when his "universal replacement regulator" arrived a week later but it was a generator regulator instead of an alternator regulator. What luck - I need several of these terribly.

The generator regulator is a Niehoff #AL167 which rang up as a Checkers Auto #PA 6349468 Voltage Regulator for $29.99, and it will work fine for your CA's 12 volt generator.

Of course, you should not use any part of the old Allis lightswitch resistor setup. The Niehoff regulator is a full current and voltage regulator, not just a cutout relay.

If you do change ground polarity, be sure to blip the BATT terminal to the ARM terminal for just a moment to repolarize the generator when you finish the hookup.

Incidentally, JC Whitney has electronic regulators for GM Delco alternators that use external regulators, and for Chrysler Mopar which will work for nearly every other 12 volt pos ground external reg automotive alternator. That's very handy for tractor apps rather than internal regulators because it's easy to provide a 120vdc power tap from an external regulator alternator to run power tools.

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phil(va)

02-08-2005 06:22:09




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 Re: CA Charging System in reply to Misfire(CO), 02-07-2005 20:49:06  
Thanks. My system is negative ground already. I'll be on lookout for the regulator part number you gave.



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Steve in N.J.

02-07-2005 09:44:06




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 Re: CA Charging System in reply to phil(va), 02-06-2005 13:22:06  
Phil,
As Steve mentioned, you definetely need some sort of regulation for the charging system, and a volt regulator is in order here. The rate that generator is charging, it'll boil the water right outta' the battery and start smokin' things in the system. We have small 12V VR units that bolt to the generator. A 12V gennie might have been put on your machine in lieu of the 6 volter, reason for not having the adjuster for the third brush. You should also install a fuse or put a fused 12V headlight switch in the system for protection. If you have trouble finding anything locally, drop us a line. We have everything you would need to get your complete electrical system safe and correct.
Steve/B&B Custom Circuits

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phil(va)

02-07-2005 15:30:22




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 Re: CA Charging System in reply to Steve in N.J., 02-07-2005 09:44:06  
Hi Steve / B&B Custom Circuits. How do I contact you. Email won't let me thru. You can email me at [email protected] and we can go from there. As I mentioned to the other Steve, I found a local shop who can do this also, but of course I have to take the generator off the tractor and the tractor is 90 miles from where I normally live (and where the shop is), so that is an issue. Email me and we can discuss.

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steve(ill)

02-06-2005 14:07:51




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 Re: CA Charging System in reply to phil(va), 02-06-2005 13:22:06  
phil, it is not a good idea to run a generator without a regulator. the battery will overcharge in a short period of time. you can do this to run a test, but not long term. you need to go to NAPA or AUTO Zone and buy a 12 volt voltage regulator and install it. ask to look at one for a 1960 chevy truck, it is probalby $20 and will work good with a 20-25 amp generator. should have 3 terminals, B,G,F. the A and F on the generator go to the G and F on regulator. B is the terminal that goes to the amp meter. other side of amp goes to the battery.----- --- Old 6 volt systems have a cutout that is 1/3 of a voltage regulator and shuts off current backflow when motor is off. the resistor on the light switch takes the place of another 1/3 of the voltage regulator as it "sests" the currrent charge rate at 2 amps when lights are off and 8 amps when lights are on. this is a very crude system and should not be used on a 12 volt upgrade. a new voltage regulator will serve all purposes, cutout, voltage regulation and current regulation.

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phil(va)

02-07-2005 15:23:55




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 Re: CA Charging System in reply to steve(ill), 02-06-2005 14:07:51  
Thanks, Steve. I think that is good advice. I spent some time at NAPA today and they were not much help except they lent me the catalog and I did find some options, but at $45. So then I went to my local tractor and old car generator shop and he was familiar with the CA system and said if I bring him the generator he will match it to correct 12 volt voltage regulator and test it for correct charge, and I think I will do that. Appreciate you steering me in right direction.

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