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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum

D17 Diesel Pump Timing

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Bob Murphy

01-07-2005 13:53:01

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Does anybody know or have any information reguarding the timing of the roosa master diesel pump on the D17 AC? I just bought the tractor and think that from the characteristics, the pump timing might be the problem. It's missing some and has a bunch of white smoke. It may be the head gasket blown, but I think it's out of time. Thanks for any help and time, Bob

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Texas Denny

01-09-2005 08:45:22

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Re: D17 Diesel Pump Timing in reply to Bob Murphy, 01-07-2005 13:53:01

Bob, I may be too late with this post since you and Gatz have already had a very detailed (and informative for me) conversation about your problem. I have a D-17 diesel. When I got it, it had a similar problem - seemed to miss, and white smoke. But it always had plenty of power. Does yours? If if it is strong, I wouldn't start with timing. I studied mine a good long time with little success. One day the fan belt broke and I was about 1/2 mile from home. With out the water pump and fan, the engine started to warm up. About 1/2 way home, all the white smoke was gone and it didn't miss. Problem - the thermostat was froze open and the engine never got warm. Months later, it developed a consistant miss which meant it was a single cylinder. I finally traced that to to an intake valve which was stuck open. That problem was corrected by lubricating the stem and putting a quart of ATF in the fuel tank. In my experience, missing is rearely caused by timing. I'm still learning about diesels. Mr. Gatz helped me on that!

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Bob Murphy

01-09-2005 11:13:34

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Re: D17 Diesel Pump Timing in reply to Texas Denny, 01-09-2005 08:45:22

I appreciate your response as well. Many problems can cause similar symptoms and I will file your response with the others in my troubleshooting guide. If I can get this thing figured out soon, I will repost depending on what I find. Thanks again, Bob

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gatz

01-07-2005 15:32:29

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Re: D17 Diesel Pump Timing in reply to Bob Murphy, 01-07-2005 13:53:01

The static timing varies according to the Model of Roosa-Master pump. Let me know what pump model you have and I can look it up in IT or AGCO book.

Model # should be something like DBGFC637-32AJ

Gatz

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Bob Murphy

01-07-2005 16:50:47

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Re: D17 Diesel Pump Timing in reply to gatz, 01-07-2005 15:32:29

Gatz, Thanks for helping. The model # on the pump is DGF CL629---12A and the rpm is 1800. Thanks again, Bob

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gatz

01-07-2005 19:21:41

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Re: D17 Diesel Pump Timing in reply to Bob Murphy, 01-07-2005 16:50:47

AGCO's manual for D17 shows the static timing at 23 deg BTDC.

High Idle 1975-2000 rpm
Rated Load 1650
Low Idle 650

And IT's AC-201 manual shows the same (23deg)

I'd recommend getting one or the other manual, each seems to have some info the other doesn't; but overall, I'd say IT would be a better choice.

Gatz

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Bob Murphy

01-08-2005 09:49:16

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Re: D17 Diesel Pump Timing in reply to gatz, 01-07-2005 19:21:41

Thanks for the specs. I have never timed one of these. What exactly is the process, or is it too complicated to list? I have a guy that will help me, but can't ever catch him. Thanks, Bob

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Gatz

01-08-2005 18:34:15

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Re: D17 Diesel Pump Timing in reply to Bob Murphy, 01-08-2005 09:49:16

Shut off fuel.
Remove the small cover on the side of the pump (should be 2 screws holding it + a rubber gasket)

Turn engine to #1 compression stroke and carefully bring up 23 deg timing mark on pulley inline to pointer on front engine cover.

Look in the side window of pump; lines on Drive Plate (towards engine front) and Cam plate should be lined up.
If not, loosen, but don't remove, 2 nuts holding pump to engine and carefully rotate pump body until they do.

Unless someone has messed around with the tractor, it's unusual that it would be out of time. However, if someone attempted to time it and got the wrong spec, it could easily happen.
Note that worn injectors (tips) can cause white smoke also.
Hope this helps,
Gatz

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Bob Murphy

01-08-2005 21:19:49

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Re: D17 Diesel Pump Timing in reply to Gatz, 01-08-2005 18:34:15

Thanks for the help. I should be able to at least verify that the engine is correctly timed now. Had all the injectors rebuilt by the local college, so if all this is right, it's probably a head gasket. (been told they blow on these things) Thanks again, Bob

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