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Clarify the 190 pto post from below!!!!!!!!!

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Larry W.

07-28-2004 20:59:57




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Alright, I don't usually get into big pressing posts like the one below, but some of the info below is just completely ridiculous!! For those of you that know how they work, forgive me and bear with me here! First off, all 190's came with live pto, as mentioned below, via the power director clutch, the power director clutch disengages power between the engine main clutch and the rear end, thus leaving the pto still running while the tractor is sitting still, everyone with me so far? Now, there were TWO options available for engaging the pto! The cheaper economy version was a manual lever that moves a sliding coupler on the shafts inside thus engaging power to the pto, THIS is the kind which you have to push in your foot clutch to engage, but if your power director is in neutral, then the pto will start turning, and the tractor will not move. The other option available was a hydraulically operated pto. With this kind your pto is engaged through use of a hydraulic clutch pack, nearly identical to the clutches used in the power director, but they are two different units in the tractor. With this kind of system you can engage and disengage the pto anytime you want without stopping the tractor to shift it into gear, everyone still with me so far?? BUT!! you still must use the power director to stop the tractor and still have the pto spinning with this kind as well! This is the only way the 190s were, as well as the 180, 185, and 200's. As far as the older AC's like the WD's, and the entire D series up to the D19, they all used a power director to get you live pto as well, very similar to those used on the later tractors, only diffeence was in the older tractors, the power director was manually operated, not hydraulic. And as far as the two speed pto's 540 and 1000 rpms units, these were optional at extra cost on the later 190's mainly the series 3's, they were available on the 180's later as well, and they were just about standard equipment for the 185's and 200's. Hey Farmer Gene, if you want to see one, stop on down, both our 185's are like this. I hope this info helps straighten some of you out on your facts so the next time your asked about the subject you'll have the right info to give. For those of you that already knew everything I just posted, thanks for hanging with me here. Hope everyone has a good day! Larry

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Ralph

07-29-2004 09:44:13




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 Re: Clarify the 190 pto post from below!!!!!!!!! in reply to Larry W., 07-28-2004 20:59:57  
CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP, BRAVO, CHEER CHEER...

At last a person who truely knows what they are talking about, and is able to explain it well.

At least to those who have the capacity to read and understand.

Can we somehow run this post every day?



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Butch

07-29-2004 09:13:45




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 Re: Clarify the 190 pto post from below!!!!!!!!! in reply to Larry W., 07-28-2004 20:59:57  
Thanks for posting Larry. I was going to stay out of this whole deal because I am not into typewriter jousting and the rhetoric gets ridicules when it is brought up. Those of you who like to play word games can call the A-C system by whatever name you want to call it and it makes no difference to me. With my W and D series A-Cs I can stop, shift if needed and go again while the PTO continuously operates hence what I call live PTO. Contrary to what is often posted by misinformed individuals the hand clutch and power director equipped tractors were designed to be used this way AND there is no grinding, no jamming and no abuse involved. This is due to the fact that the transmission shafts are not turning when ground motion is stopped with the hand clutch and the trans is left in any gear. If you take it out of gear for any length of time the top shaft will start to turn and you will get grinding if you try to put it back in gear. How fast it starts to turn is determined by several factors including oil temp, adjustment, if the release springs are in good shape and if it has warped plates. With warm oil, a quick flick of the shifter will place you in any gear with no jam, grind or abuse, period. I tire of so-called experts calling this abuse when it is not and others being confused by 18 different terms for the different ways that manufacturers used to accomplish the same end, a way to stop the ground motion of a tractor, maybe change direction of travel, while the PTO continues to run.

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RJC

07-29-2004 04:42:38




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 Re: Clarify the 190 pto post from below!!!!!!!!! in reply to Larry W., 07-28-2004 20:59:57  
Guess I need to go see my friends 190 and check it out. I did get some direction as what to look for. Got a lot more responses from this forum than I have on others. Must be a lot more AC people than there is around here. Thanks!!!



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JMS/MN

07-28-2004 22:14:25




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 Re: Clarify the 190 pto post from below!!!!!!!!! in reply to Larry W., 07-28-2004 20:59:57  
I'm with you on most of your post, don't know about the need to stop the tractor to keep the pto spinning. If AC advertised an independent pto- then that is what it is- independent of the foot clutch- can run anytime. WD, WD45 did not have a Power Director- it was a hand clutch, not a Hi-Lo like the PD, but it provided live power for the hydraulics and pto. The sales brochure for the 190 and 190XT lists both 540 and 1000 rpm as standard equipment, with the INDEPENDENT pto as an option. Publication F333A.

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Larry W.

07-28-2004 22:42:33




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 Re: Re: Clarify the 190 pto post from below!!!!!!! in reply to JMS/MN, 07-28-2004 22:14:25  
Alright, first off, the WD "hand clutch" is just an early version of a power director, yes, its not two speeds, but, none the less, for the sake of argument, it acomplishes the same thing. The 540 was the standard pto, The dual speed was not available on early 190's, and I guarentee it was not "standard equipment" look at the next few 190's you see, there are few with dual speed, and if they have it, they are a later 190. When they advertise "Idependent pto" they are referring to the hydraulic actuated pto, this STILL requires you to use the power director to stop motion of the tractor to keep the pto running, if you push in the foot clutch on ANY, AND I MEAN ANY 190, your pto will STOP!! I work on AC's everyday, and we have 4 190's from various years, as well as 3 185's and 2 180's, there is no factory built 190 that has it's pto COMPLETELY independent from the foot clutch!!

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JMS/MN

07-29-2004 12:59:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Clarify the 190 pto post from below!!! in reply to Larry W., 07-28-2004 22:42:33  
A WD hand clutch is just that- a clutch. It stops wheel motion and lets the pto and hydraulic operate. There is no direction of power. Power Director means it can direct power to either the high range or low range of the transmission, and provides a clutch action in neutral. And the 24 page sales brochure I have, FE333A, on page 15, states "A continuous-running PTO, driven directly off the engine, is standard equipment on the ONE-NINETY and ONE-NINETY XT. If you prefer an independent PTO, a multiple-disc, hydraulically actuated PTO clutch is available as an option. Both types give you your choice of 540rpm or 1000rpm gearing.....". The tractors in the illustration are not Series Two or Three- they are marked only as 190 and 190XT. According to the cutaway diagram on pgs 12 and 13, I believe you are right about the pto stopping with the foot clutch, no matter if it is live or independent- AC would be stretching it to say it is totally independent like other mfrs made.

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Larry W.

07-30-2004 08:58:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Clarify the 190 pto post from below!!! in reply to JMS/MN, 07-29-2004 12:59:15  
JMS, first off, there never was "technically" a series 2 190, only the series 3's were so designated. And, throughout the production run of the 190's, a straight, non-turboed 190 was always available, thus the reason for your brochure saying 190 and 190XT, note though: the XT was not made at the very beginning of production, they were later, and as I said before, later in production is when the dual speed pto became available, not in the early models. As far as the other info, you answered your own question! Everything you wrote above is exactly what I have already described! And as far as stretching the truth that the pto was like other manufacturers, they never compared it to anyone's! AS far as you WD hand clutch, let me explain this as slowly as I can, ok? Even though it does not have hi and low range, it was the basis for what later in the D series became the power director. No, you said a power director directs the power to either high range or low range, well on AC's, high range is direct drive, this is the same ratio as what the WD clutch does, just on the later models, they also threw in a low range clutch pack. Now, I never said the WD had a power director, I said, "for the sake of argument, the hand clutch and the power directors accomplish the same thing!" Do you understand yet?

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Ralph

07-29-2004 18:40:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Clarify the 190 pto post from below!!! in reply to JMS/MN, 07-29-2004 12:59:15  
JMS, Quoting you, quoting AC FE333A:15, "A continuous-running PTO, driven directly off the engine, is standard equipment..."

Quoting you again, "AC would be stretching it to say it is totally independent like other mfrs made."

Did they make that claim? AC would NOT be stretching it to say it is totally independent. NO ONE claims it is like other mfrs made.

You have proven more than once in this discussion, you are not an AC expert, but may qualify as an AH.

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