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Heart broken What Happened??????????

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Chad from MI

06-11-2004 04:38:03




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I just had a heart breaker last night on a wd-45 allis. started it up after a in frame rebuild New pistons, sleeves, crank bearings and gaskets. After assembly and valve adjustmentit fired right up and it ran ok it was missing just thought I needed to adjust the valves better. Last night dad called and said he started up the WD and it ran for a few minutes and started knocking and quite. and then he could only roll it over a half a trun. I don't know what happened. yes there was oil and pressure and coolant. Makes me sick. what could have happened? head was redone new valves and torrqued to spec and the rod bearings were torqued to 40 pounds from the self locking ones as I was told from here. We put standard crank bearings back in becasue the reading was so close to normal on the crank. Any ideas where to start?
possibly a broken ring?
Chad

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Ron

06-11-2004 21:39:43




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 Re: Heart broken What Happened?????????? in reply to Chad from MI, 06-11-2004 04:38:03  
If the valve didn't break, this should never have happened... The AC engines all had valve circlips that are to be installed on the valve stem, under the retainers..in a groove just for them... With these, you can break a valve spring, and not drop the valve.. Be sure to have them installed next time...!!

I broke a valve spring in a 390 Ford, with a full race cam, and thinking the engine was history, I drove it about 3 miles home.. When I pulled the head..all it did was polish one valve-relief, and slightly bent the valve..!! Hammered like hell, tho..!! Good luck...Just that you can still turn it may be good news..!! One thing...Chrysler 318 Valve spring retainers will increase valve spring seat pressure on the WD-45 AC...

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Dick L

06-11-2004 07:25:22




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 Re: Heart broken What Happened?????????? in reply to Chad from MI, 06-11-2004 04:38:03  
I had a car one time that started to knock, let it idle and it stopped and wouldn't turn over with the starter. I was able to back it up by turnning the engine backwards, then would come up against something solid. Pulled the head and the head off one valve head had broken and lodged on the top of the piston beside of the firing chamber. I am not sure that there is room enough for this to happen on the WD45 but if you don't find anything on the bottom end you might check. I have lost several valve heads over the years and most go thru a piston.

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Kevin (FL)

06-11-2004 07:10:09




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 Re: Heart broken What Happened?????????? in reply to Chad from MI, 06-11-2004 04:38:03  
Chad,

Could be a rod cap came loose. The knocking heard before the failure gives a clue. Also could be one of the valves were adjusted too tight, but I'd be pulling the pan and doing a bottom-end inspection. I don't think a broken ring would have caused knocking and I've seen engines run (smoking though) for quite awhile with cracked or broken rings.



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chad

06-11-2004 07:24:58




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 Re: Re: Heart broken What Happened?????????? in reply to Kevin (FL), 06-11-2004 07:10:09  
well Dad called me and said #3 valve dropped the keeper fell out. So we are calling the guy that did the head work and see what he will do but first we need to see how bad the piston got when it was hammering.
Chad



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Ed

06-11-2004 10:47:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Heart broken What Happened?????????? in reply to chad, 06-11-2004 07:24:58  
i was just going to guess that it dropped a valve..... may not be anybodys fault, check the valve spring height (installed height)....on some new valves the keeper groove is in a slightly higher or lower location.....or if the seats were ground fairly deep, you won't have the correct seat pressure ( which is usually not much on tractors)..... some good machine shops can also check the spring tension and un-installed spring height..... .also running a tractor with the wrong valve clearence can attribute to droppong a valve on a fresh head, run the clearence slightly loose for a short while , and then reset the valves..... "valves" and new "keepers" need to seat in.....valve guides that are too tight or not lubed prior to assembly (and prior to just starting it if the head has sit around for awhile) will contribute to droping a valve also

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Chad from MI

06-11-2004 11:53:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Heart broken What Happened???????? in reply to Ed, 06-11-2004 10:47:40  
ED
thanks for the info. I will trying running it loose next time I started out at .016" cold and there suppose to be .012" hot so I thought it was loose. as for the lube on the head we put it on same day it got done. maybe the valve stems were to long like you said.
Thanks
chad



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Ed

06-11-2004 12:38:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Heart broken What Happened???? in reply to Chad from MI, 06-11-2004 11:53:53  
that is entirely possible.....after you get the head back, push the valves down by hand (try not to push down on the retainer, this could pop out a keeper)...and see if they all "feel" the same as the valve opens.....make sure you don't have one thats opens too easily,(or too hard) this is kind-of and easy check of seat pressure, if one opens real easy, you will need a new spring and(or) shims to place under the spring..... .oh, by the way, dings in the top of the piston won't afect its running as long as they are to too deep and have'nt crushed a ring land(pinched the top ring)....however be aware that when a valve drops it can bend the connecting rod (even if its bent slightly it will "pinch" the rod bearing, and bind the rod side clearences)....not to scare you, just be aware

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Russ

06-13-2004 05:50:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Heart broken What Happened in reply to Ed, 06-11-2004 12:38:40  
Fixin' gone bad; Sounds like if you follow Ed's advice you will return to a runnin' rig by the shortest path. Make sure those valve keepers are long in groove. You can tap the assembled valves several times with a brass hammer to ensure they are in the groove for the long haul. Good luck with your engine recovery.



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Chad from MI

06-14-2004 04:45:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Heart broken What Happ in reply to Russ , 06-13-2004 05:50:13  
well we got it apart. Broke the head where the valve guide comes through put a huge cut in the valve sealing surface. Broke a brand new piston and we think it bent the rod. not to mention new head gasket and oil pan gasket and new oil and time putting it back together.
I just hope the shop covers it all. Dad was taking parts there today.
I will try and post a picture of the valve it was amasing how it looked all flattened and bent into a pretzel.

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