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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum

Still having MORE problems with the C

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Eric in VA

05-17-2004 19:11:51

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I am still having problems with the C. After retiming it and cleaning the fuel bowl, its still having problems. Actually, it won't run now at all. Im starting to get tired and sick of trying to figure out what is wrong with this tractor. I have put a lot of time into this tractor and have gotton nowhere. I posted a message earlier this week if you want to know what is going on with my tractor.


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Dave Conrad

05-19-2004 04:49:24

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 Re: Still having MORE problems with the C in reply to Eric in VA, 05-17-2004 19:11:51  
I have a Model C also, last fall I was having extreme problem with getting the tractor started and lack of horse power. Thought it was the timing,it turned out the carberator get's dirty, (some rust in fuel tank). By taking the carb apart (carefully), then blowing out all parts and then putting it back together she starts like a champ. About every 10 or 20 hours I have to repeat the proceedure, I am getting go at doing the clean out in the field. Have finally picked up another inline fuel filter. Good luck

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05-17-2004 19:40:32

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 Re: Still having MORE problems with the C in reply to Eric in VA, 05-17-2004 19:11:51  
Eric, the first thing you need is spark, the second thing is fuel, and last you need them at the right time.---- it will not start? did you do something in the mag or distributor? pull a plug and stick it in the plug wire and crank the tractor over. does it fire/spark? if not look in the mag or coil area. if it does spark, then drain the carb bowl, does it have fuel? if it does then its time for the timing. are you on the compression stroke with the timing? take out the front plug and have someone turn the motor slowly with the crank untill you feel air pressure coming out of the plug hole. the piston is on the way up. Now look in the timing hole on the left side of the flywheel and continue to crank slowly untill the TDC mark is almost showing and you should hear the mag "snap". also you should have the mag pointing at #1 plug wire now. make sure you have the wires right.

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Eric in VA

05-18-2004 13:10:34

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 Re: Re: Still having MORE problems with the C in reply to steve, 05-17-2004 19:40:32  
Here is how I retimed the engine.
(1)Took the magneto off the governor assem.
(2)Took the cover off the assem. and pulled the governor gear out.
(3)pulled ALL the spark plugs out.
(4)Then I put my finger in the #1 piston hole. Then hand cranked the engine till I could feel the #1 piston starting to rise and air pressure blowing out. Then I had someone SLOWLY crank on it while I watched for the FIRE mark on the flywheel and put it in the center of the hole.
(5) Then I took the cover off the mag and lined the button up with the timing stud on the mag.
(6) Then I looked at how the gov. gear needed to go back on tractor so the gear and the mag would mesh together without moving the button inside the mag.
(7)Then I put the cover,the gear, and the mag back on the tractor. I left the mag cover off so I could see that it was still lined up with the stud in the mag.

Am I doing something wrong? Is there anyway I could get a hold of you (steve).

Thanks for your time,

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05-18-2004 15:24:53

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 Re: Re: Re: Still having MORE problems with the C in reply to Eric in VA, 05-18-2004 13:10:34  
problem may be the FIRE. static timing is at top dead center TDC. once started it will advance to the FIRE mark. Im not sure a mag powered tractor will start at the FIRE mark. if it did, it would run poorly. see Dicks note also. same plan.

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Hand crank

05-19-2004 08:20:38

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Still having MORE problems with th in reply to steve, 05-18-2004 15:24:53  
Oh by the way Eric, when you crank engine over to get it coming up on compression and fire line in center of the hole, DO NOT USE starter to crank it,as will have the tendency to go beyond the fire mark,and you will have to turn the motor back to the fireline.If this is what you are doing then it will be out of time. "Hand crank" with all plugs out, DO NOT go to the point that the impulse couplier snaps, line up rotor and timing lug. HOPE YOU GET IT RUNNING. Keep working on it, defeating your problem is a great learning experience

Good luck

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05-18-2004 21:55:45

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Still having MORE problems with th in reply to steve, 05-18-2004 15:24:53  
That is the correct way to time an Allis C, turn engine with hand crank untill you feel air coming out of sparkplug hole, line up fireline in center of hole in bellhousing. Then line the rotor up with the timing lug in mag housing. It is done that way so it will be a little retarded as not to kick back when hand cranking motor. So it does not kick back and brake your hand,wrist or arm!!! I just timed a friends this way after he had to put in points, also found there were push rods out from under rocker arms on 2 cylinders. Therefore he had only 2 cylinders working right. CHECK ALL OBVIOUS FIRST, gas, spark at points, point gap,condenser, firing order, all valves are opening properly, so on..

Good luck....if you were closer I would come and start it for you.....Keith-OR

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Dick L

05-18-2004 07:42:45

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 Re: Re: Still having MORE problems with the C in reply to steve, 05-17-2004 19:40:32  
when trying to trouble shoot one of these engines for timing that has been running, I always take out all the plugs. It makes hand cranking much easyer. I do as (steve) said to get a pressure feel on my thumb in number one spark pulg hole. I then hold number plug wire with my left hand, keeping the metal plug end about an eigth of an inch from the magneto while inching the crank and very easyly turning the engine while whatching for a spark and listining for the magneto to snap. Without moving the crank any after the snap, if it is in time you will be able to walk around to the left side of the tractor an look into the inspection hole and read the TDC on the flywheel. Quicker and easeyer than typing it.
I have never found that I could not read the FIRE on the flywheel with a timing light when starting the engine with this timing check. I recheck every engine I work on with a timing light.

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