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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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Paint Code Problem

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Tim D

04-07-2004 10:56:08




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I am having a problem getting PO#1 locally. I gave the Auto paint store the PPG #60080 code and I wound up with what looks to me to be PO#2. The store recommended trying the other code number60396 and that came as a deep pink! What can I do? I was trying to get this in spray cans, but even if I have them mix a quart of paint and use a HVLP sprayer it will still be the wrong color. Any advice? Thanks Tim.

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J.C. IN AZ.

04-11-2004 22:20:04




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 Re: Paint Code Problem in reply to Tim D, 04-07-2004 10:56:08  
I USE A CAMPBELL-HAUSFEILD SPRAY GUN AVAILABLE AT LOWES LUMBER FOR MUCH LESS THAN $100 AND AM PLEASED WITH IT'S PERFORMANCE FOR THE PRICE.



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Rod (NH)

04-07-2004 11:36:56




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 Re: Paint Code Problem in reply to Tim D, 04-07-2004 10:56:08  
Hi Tim,

Here's what those two PPG numbers look like in the PPG OMNI line of paints:
third party image
If yours look different, then one of two things exist:
1. The actual paint you have is NOT a PPG product but is from another manufacturer and your paint supplier used an incorrect cross reference between the two brands. or
2. Your paint supplier is not mixing the product properly.

Make sure you are getting the PPG OMNI line of paints. As far as I know, those shades are NOT available in other PPG lines unless you are lucky enough the have a dealer that still stocks the older (also better and more expensive) PPG Delstar acrylic enamel and still has the mix formulas for it.

The two numbers you mention are custom mixed paints. They are not available in pre-mixed spray cans as far as I know. Usually a quart is the minimum purchase amount for custom mixed colors. Is your supplier trying to sell you "something close" in a spray can? I am not sure because of your reference to spray cans. For small areas, you can use custom mixed paints in a Preval Sprayer just like a spray can. That way you would be assured of a perfect match with any custom mix for touch-up work.

third party image Rod

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Tim D

04-07-2004 20:02:25




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 Re: Re: Paint Code Problem in reply to Rod (NH), 04-07-2004 11:36:56  
Hi Rod,
I was hoping you would reply to my posting,you seem to be the paint guru! I think you are right that I am not getting the PPG OMNI line of paints.
The paints in spray paints are "filled" at the store where I've been trying to get the paint. I may buy a quart of paint, but I dont want to buy it from the store Ive been dealing with, because they arent getting the right colors in the cans, and it seems they are the only store in the area. Do you know of any place on the internet that sells PPG?
I think what I may do is buy a HVLP gravity feed spray gun and spray the parts I need at work. Any recommendations for a decent $100 spray gun? Thanks for your help.
Tim

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Rod (NH)

04-08-2004 15:06:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Paint Code Problem in reply to Tim D, 04-07-2004 20:02:25  
Well Tim, I'am not really any kind of paint guru :o). I did however go through something a couple of years ago similar to what you are now. I wanted to find a source of reasonably high quality paint in that early persian orange shade. Since I am familair with automotive paints over many years, I looked at three manufacturer's: PPG, DuPont and Martin Senour (NAPA). All three of these manufacturer's never refer to the two shades of persian orange as #1 or #2. The only reference to such numbers that I have ever run across is here on this board and on the other AC board. MS had three different "persian oranges". By looking at in-store paint chips of all three, I couldn't tell any difference between them! All three also looked to have too much red in them to be that brownish, pumpkin shade that I was looking for, commonly called persian #1. I also found a DuPont local dealer that had paint chips from an old DuPont agricultural equipment catalog. The two numbers were 29047 and 655. One was called persian orange and the other was called allis chalmers orange, I don't recall which. This site, in the "paint codes" area has only one DuPont color called "persian orange". That is 29047. Compared with the DuPont paint chips I saw, 29047 has too much red in it to be that early persian shade. Judging from the DuPont paint chips I looked at, the 655 was the correct paint shade. I have a cross reference from DuPont to PPG paint numbers which indicates DuPont 655 crosses to PPG 60396. I have also read on this board and the other one about PPG 60080 being the correct early persian shade. Hmmm, stuff disagreed! So, I decided to go with the cross from the paint chip that I thought was correct (DuPont 655) and purchased a quart of PPG 60396. I picked PPG because I have used quite a bit of their products in automotive work over the years and like their paint.

The original paint sample in the photo of my post is on the lower V-belt guard for the belly sickle mower on my '42B. It has been kicking around in a barn for the last sixty years because neither Dad nor I ever actually used it on the mower. I know for sure it has the original paint on it that has not seen much sunlight. I scuffed up an area with 400 grit sandpaper to clean the old surface and show up the original shade as much as can be done. As you can see, the PPG 60396 has way too much red in it. I then went back and purchased a quart of PPG 60080 and finally got a decent match with the original. The folks that were calling for PPG 60080 as a match for persian #1 were correct. I also believe that the DuPont to PPG cross is NOT correct.

Moral of story: Don't buy a lot of specially mixed paint until you are absolutely positive you have the shade you want. And don't rely on manufacturer's cross references. Also be cautious of the appearance of any paint chips.

I am pleased with the PPG 60080 for the early persian. It is available from PPG in their OMNI line in three chemistries: 1) acrylic enamel used either with or w/o a hardener, 2) acrylic urethane and 3) basecoat which REQUIRES a second stage urethane clearcoat for gloss. The OMNI line is PPG's "economical" line of automotive paints. I am not aware of any internet sales of mixed paint from any manufacturer. Make sure you check out any local suppliers to the auto repair trades. That's where most paint of this type is custom mixed, be it PPG, DuPont, MS or some other.

From what you say, I would not have a lot of confidence in the store that mixed up the paint you got. If you do not have another PPG dealer in your vicinity to go to, you could check out a DuPont dealer. I think the 655 is correct but I can't be sure without actually purchasing some of it. As with PPG, DuPont has an "economy" line of paints called NASON. Most of the non-car colors are now relegated to the "economy" lines in both manufacturers.

I can't verify anything from NAPA (Martin Senour) because I have never purchased any from them and the color chips I saw all looked the same - not good for confidence building. I have read about some stock spray can paint from Krylon that is reportedly quite close to persian #1 but I don't have a number to attach to it. I never pursued that option because I think most spray can paint is of a lower quality and durability than a good automotive paint used with a hardener.

Don't forget that it is difficult to evaluate color shades on computer screens. The differences in camera and monitor sensitivities and adjustments make exact color rendition hard unless everything is carefully calibrated for color work. That persian orange seems to be a problem on my screen to get it to show up exactly as one sees it. That's why I showed all three shades in the same photo. At least it shows the relative differences.

I don't have any real recommendations on a spray gun. You might try Sharpe though for good quality at a decent price. The three guns I have are all DeVilbiss and each is way over the $100 mark. You might also want to browse the posts in the "paint and bodywork" forum of this site. There have been discussions on spray guns there in the past. Do a sort-by-date search in that forum on "gun". Or even ask a new question there about recommended guns in the $100 range. I am sure you will get some replies.

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steve

04-08-2004 14:54:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Paint Code Problem in reply to Tim D, 04-07-2004 20:02:25  
go to the local body shop in your town. they probably handle PPG. they can either mix or order the color, depending on how big of a place it is. good guys to get to know. if you are just painting a few parts and dont plan on doing much in the future, you can get a $50 standard gun from Northern Hydrualics, Wal Mart, or local farm store that will do a half way decent job after you practice for a while. Make sure you get thinner that is matched to the ambient temperature so it eveporates correctly and you dont get runs.

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Tim D

04-08-2004 20:17:46




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Paint Code Problem in reply to steve, 04-08-2004 14:54:03  
Thank you very much Rod and Steve!!!



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