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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum

AC 'B' elec system questions

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JB in VA

02-19-2004 07:26:02

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I aquired an AC Mod B (probably a '40) with my farm. It is missing the battery and cables and the wiring from the instrument panel had been cut off.

It is hard to crank start until after it is warm and, I must now ashamedly admit, I have jump started it with my truck several times. I did not realize it might be a 6v system, I am not famiiliar with 6v tractors and assumed it was a 12.

Can I damage the elec system by jumping it?

How do I tell if it is a 6v or 12v?

Thanx in advance.

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Farmer in the Dells (WI)

02-19-2004 21:31:47

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Re: AC 'B' elec system questions in reply to JB in VA, 02-19-2004 07:26:02

Hey JB, not an expert by any means here (or anywhere) but speaking from first hand, have a firm hold on that crank because if it doesn't fire forward, she'll kick like a mule and before you get your hand out the way that crank will let you know its there.

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Steve in N.J.

02-19-2004 20:58:06

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Re: AC 'B' elec system questions in reply to JB in VA, 02-19-2004 07:26:02

Hi JB,
Just happen to be passin' through and saw my name mentioned. We offer a complete wiring system kit for your B model. Our wiring is Polyethelene crosslinked Marine wire for superior moisture resistance equipped with weathertite shrink tube connectors. We give you all new stainless & brass hardware packets for new connections on all components, step by step instructions, diagram, color coded nomenclature, & encased in a tar/fiberloom that looks just like OEM. We also build battery cables, service & repair mags, carbs, distributors, drives, governors, generators, alternators, starters & design 12V conversion systems for AC machines just to name a few. Drop us a line with your mailing address and we'll shoot you out a catalog. Be happy to help you out!
Steve/B&B Custom Circuits

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JMS/MN

02-19-2004 08:50:10

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Re: AC 'B' elec system questions in reply to JB in VA, 02-19-2004 07:26:02

If the battery is gone and you jump started it- you must have hooked cables directly to the starter and tractor frame, right? That does not hurt the starter- just spins it faster. Sounds like the tractor has a magneto, not a coil and distributor. The magneto makes it's own electricity to fire the plugs- so it's not coming from your pickup. Originally that tractor was a 6volt positive ground system. With cut wires and no battery you have no electrical system. If the generator is working it should be hooked to a battery with an intact wiring system, otherwise it can be damaged.

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old

02-19-2004 07:30:06

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Re: AC 'B' elec system questions in reply to JB in VA, 02-19-2004 07:26:02

Well if it has a genarator on it then its 6 volt but if it has an alternator on it its 12 volt. Also if its 6 volt its positive ground. As far as hurting any thing running it on 12 volt and it maybe being 6 volt still you might burn out the coil but that would be all

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JB in VA

02-19-2004 07:50:09

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Re: Re: AC 'B' elec system questions in reply to old, 02-19-2004 07:30:06

OK... got it. I have a generator, but, the 'field wire' is not hooked up, per the manual if you are not going to use the battery.

Yes, I do have the original Op. Inst. manual, but it does not define the difference between the 6v and 12v systems and I do not know this tractors service history.

Will the tractor still run if the coil is burnt out?

There is no mention of a coil and I don't see on on the tractor. Do 6v systems not use a coil?

Thanx Old.

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old

02-19-2004 13:54:11

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Re: Re: Re: AC 'B' elec system questions in reply to JB in VA, 02-19-2004 07:50:09

Sorry about that I forgot that it could have a mag instead of a coil ingnition system. Now you know why I call my self old, LOL.

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JB in VA

02-19-2004 15:40:27

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Re: Re: Re: Re: AC 'B' elec system questions in reply to old, 02-19-2004 13:54:11

Yea, no coil here! Actually I kinda like the simplicity of the 6v pos ground system.

And I hope to hang around here long enough to call myself, "old" too! LOL!!

Thanx for al the help... to you and everyone here.

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old

02-19-2004 16:29:27

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC 'B' elec system questions in reply to JB in VA, 02-19-2004 15:40:27

Oh by the way if you would like an origanal owners manaul for your B let me know, I sold my B years ago but I still have the manaul, front cover isn't there any more but other then that its in pretty good condition for a book that is 30 plus years old

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JB in VA

02-19-2004 21:07:52

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC 'B' elec system questio in reply to old, 02-19-2004 16:29:27

If yer giving it away, sure, I'll take it!

I do have the one that (as I understand it) came with my tractor. It is quite stained and stapled and taped on the binding edge.

Thanx old... E me, my addx is unhid.

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old

02-19-2004 22:16:30

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC 'B' elec system que in reply to JB in VA, 02-19-2004 21:07:52

Not saying its free but I only want $15 plus what is cost to mail it, this one has no tape holding it togeather but I do keep it in a plastic bag.

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Glenn in PA

02-19-2004 09:37:50

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Re: Re: Re: AC 'B' elec system questions in reply to JB in VA, 02-19-2004 07:50:09

You shouldn't need a coil with a mag. The electrical system that you have probably just charged the battery for lights and starter. No ignition circuit. The Dealer parts book shows components for 3 circuits. Ignition w/ Distributor, Electric Starting, Electric Lighting. Funny thing about my DPM, the pages are bound out of order... just noticed that!

Get ahold of Steve in NJ at B&B Custom Circuits, he can help you get everything cleaned up nice.

Steve in NJ 's web page

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JB in VA

02-19-2004 11:47:18

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Re: Re: Re: Re: AC 'B' elec system questions in reply to Glenn in PA, 02-19-2004 09:37:50

Sounds like what I have. No coil, battery for lights and starter, generator for battery and a magneto for running power. I have headlights but no wiring or any idea if they work and my tail light has no bulb, lens or wire either.

He who owned it afore me stripped out the battery system and wiring (and, as I dissasemble & inspect, I find he also did NOT lube and maintain her properly!!!!!). I have already had to replace the levershaft in the Ross steering gear box as the stud was GONE, and I need to get a new worm gear too.

I will contact Steve @ B&B and I am also looking at Agro Services wiring harnesses and battery cables also.

Question... what are the opinions on B&B's harness as far as 'looks'? I desire to return this 'B' to as close to showroom stock condition (in looks at least) as possible. Agro Services touts thier harness as being very close to the original in looks.

Thanx for all ya'lls hep! This is a great forun, I will be here often I suspect!

Yers,
J.D. Blackwell
Erehwon Farm, VA

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Lloyd

02-19-2004 09:36:51

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Re: Re: Re: AC 'B' elec system questions in reply to JB in VA, 02-19-2004 07:50:09

they all have a coil somewhere,probably in the mag,therefor it will run with no battery. The easiest way out is to get a late model gm alt-one wire type,it will mount up w very little effort in place of GEN,w amp ga-wiring will come w new gauge-then you will be off and running.There is a gent named steve who has alot of wirng info if you to go back to original,not to hard either way.What are you doing w the B model.?

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JB in VA

02-19-2004 12:04:54

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Re: Re: Re: Re: AC 'B' elec system questions in reply to Lloyd, 02-19-2004 09:36:51

FYI, I have posted a pic of her...
"38 (?) AC Mod. B" in Tractor Photos.

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JB in VA

02-19-2004 12:00:17

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Re: Re: Re: Re: AC 'B' elec system questions in reply to Lloyd, 02-19-2004 09:36:51

I am gonna contact B&B and I am also looking at Agro Services.

The 'B' came with the 5 acre farm we bought 2 years ago. My father has 2 Fords (I don't know models) at my family home therefore I have been around tractors all my life but this the first one I have owned.

I have 14 attachments for it. A grader blade, a dozer blade, 2 plows, 2 mowers, several disk sets, rakes, harrows and such. They are scattered all over the farm. Some are salvageable, some I am sure are junk that I will parts out.

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Lloyd ( in CT)

02-19-2004 13:00:55

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC 'B' elec system questions in reply to JB in VA, 02-19-2004 12:00:17

JB-Nice pic.That is a great tractor,I have one just like it and it works just fine,very smooth. I am sure you will find lots of valuable info on this forum,and that is a friendly one to restore or just fix up and use-enjoy it !!!!!

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JB in VA

02-19-2004 15:37:10

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC 'B' elec system questio in reply to Lloyd ( in CT), 02-19-2004 13:00:55

I agree. I am damn glad to have it. Considering it age, (I just got the SN cleaned off and according to the SN page here it is 1951 production) and condition, (the Water Temp., Oil Pres. and Ammeter gauges all do not work; it is missing the radiator shutters; and it has been stored outdoors for I don't know HOW long...) it still runs like new once started and it is not as hard to start as many newer vehicles I have known.

This forum has been truly helpful so far. I plan on being around till I can call myself "old"... LOL!

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Glenn in PA

02-19-2004 19:48:10

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC 'B' elec system que in reply to JB in VA, 02-19-2004 15:37:10

Are those all "B" implements? Let me know if you are going to part out or junk any, as I am attempting to assemble a "full set" of all implements ever made by AC for the "B" series.

I have an old set of radiators shutters that are for later production "B"'s. Pretty rusty, but they look to be complete. Let me know if you are interested.

BTW Steve is "into" the "B" tractor, ask him how "original" he goes. I've heard he is a stickler for the Chevy II stuff.

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02-22-2004 21:45:18

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC 'B' elec system in reply to Glenn in PA, 02-19-2004 19:48:10

I have one that I have and use on my B that I have never heard of before. I have and onion and garlic planter. It plants the bulb onions and garlic cloves. I don't know if it came from ac or someplace else but its a dandy unit to have. Let me know if you have ever heard of one before Glen I would be interested.

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JB in VA

02-19-2004 21:26:19

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC 'B' elec system in reply to Glenn in PA, 02-19-2004 19:48:10

Glen, I can only assume they are all for the 'B' as this was a subsistance farm for many years and as I understand it this was the tractor used here.

Maybe we can help each other, I have a full set of pics of all the implements but have no idea how to identify them, you (seem) to have knowledge of all the implements for the 'B'... we need to put our heads together my friend!

My 'B' is a '51... does that sound right for the shutters? Would I be interested... hmmmmm ... lemme see.... YUP! I have my eaddx unhid, please feel free to write me so we can begin corresponding.

Heard from Steve... thanx!

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