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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
:

D-17 doesn't have neutral

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James in MO

01-03-2004 19:06:34




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OK it is a Series III I am looking at while I was trying to figure out the handclutch I noticed it does not have neutralit shifts from High to low just fine but when it is in high and you pull it out it goes to low right off the bat is this a major problem or a minor adjustment?




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Pon

01-04-2004 10:46:13




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 Re: D-17 doesn't have neutral in reply to James in MO, 01-03-2004 19:06:34  
Mr. James, whether you're holding the button or not doesn't matter, there should be a neutral somewhere between low at the rear position and high in the forward position. True, the button would hold it in neutral as a convenience, but the button has nothing to do with whether it actually goes into neutral or not, that happens inside.

That clutch is a little like your MF in that it stops the forward motion of the tractor but allows the PTO to continue. The WD and WD-45 clutches did that too. But they did not have the high and low feature incorporated. So what you have is two clutches in one. When it's in high, or forward, the drive is direct as if it didn't have the clutch at all. But when you go into the rear position, or low, it disconnects the high clutch and activates the low clutch which is connected to some reduction gears, and there's your low. It's sure not complicated, but it does have to be like Allis-Chalmers says, or all kinds of things can crop up, like you see.

If you're very interested in the tractor all you need do is get someone to go in through the small plate on the side by the lever and adjust the clutch according to the book, which is a procedure that must be done correctly, but it doesn't take long and is no big deal. Anyone that's not familiar with the clutch or that doesn't have a manual to go by can not do it. It's a matter of moving shims around and it has to be done right. For example, the same specified total amount of shims must always be present, but moved from one of the three locations at each ear to the other after taking measurements inside. Additionally, the center shims have longer legs for support. It sounds terrible, but it's not, just has to be done right. It is not a simple matter off just going inside and tightening something or removing some shims. There's a definite procedure that must be followed.

Then, If the clutch won't adjust or the adjustment doesn't help obtain a neutral, then you may have more on your hands than you'd want to fool with, because the tractor may have to be split for the clutch repair. The kicker is whether it's just out of adjustment, meaning maybe somebody messed with it not knowing what they were doing, or whether something really is wrong. Do the easy thing first by getting it adjusted. After that you'll know what to do. If I can help, let me know.

God Bless. Pon

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James in MO

01-04-2004 11:52:56




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 Re: Re: D-17 doesn't have neutral in reply to Pon, 01-04-2004 10:46:13  
Thank you very much for your information yiou have been very helpful as I did not understand at all how that two stage wet clutch worked. I did a little investigating after I read your post and in fourth gear in Neutral the tractor won't move but it labors the motor like it is trying now in first gear it will move but I can hold it with the brake lightly so to me that sounds like a simple adjustment am I correct? I will leave my email unblocked if you would like to email me or just do this through the site

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Pon

01-04-2004 12:14:14




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 Re: Re: Re: D-17 doesn't have neutral in reply to James in MO, 01-04-2004 11:52:56  
Whichever way I can help best is fine Mr. James. It sounds to me like an adjustment may fix your problem, but whether it does or not it's sure the easiest, quickest and cheapest way to find out whether you've got big problems or it's just out of adjustment. If you want to give it or try, or know someone who can help that'd be your best bet. You just pull up a stool to the little plate behind that lever and have at it. You need a way to measure between plates and a small hole gauge with a micrometer is good. There are measurements that must be taken and recorded, then a little adding and subtracting and first thing you know you've got a clutch.

I also have the information I could send you either by fax, snail mail, or maybe even my scanner would work for me for e-mailing. But someone should have the info nearby. If not, let me know and I'll send you the stuff straight out of the Allis-Chalmers factory manual on how to do it. Getting a hold of the proper shims is another matter for I don't know where they can be obtained. Hope this helps. That clutch just ain't that big a deal, I think it just needs a little help. When you get it right it's a honey, and you sure won't be able to hold the tractor with the brakes in any gear. God Bless.

Pon

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James in MO

01-04-2004 14:05:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: D-17 doesn't have neutral in reply to Pon, 01-04-2004 12:14:14  
Thank-You very much I am going to go see the Allis dealer tomorrow and find out what it will cost me to have it done and then just subtract that from what I pay for it I am going to go ahead and buy it I think I really like it alot it has a bout 10 more horses than my MF and it gives new meaning to the words spinning to my brushog I qwas very pleasantly suprised to see just how much difference those 10 horses make. The tractor is really straight and very paintable and runs like a top the loader has it's own pump and is really fast the 3- point held my cutter up for about 30 minutes befreo I got bored watching it I am very happy this is not a major deal. Thank You agian for your help and I hope I can lean on you in the future fior help as well I will order a good manuel I was not happy with the I and T manuel I had for my Massey it just didn't get detailed enough for me do you have a source for good manuels?

James

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Pon

01-04-2004 21:47:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: D-17 doesn't have neutral in reply to James in MO, 01-04-2004 14:05:19  
You're very welcome sir, and may God Bless.

The Allis dealer will, or at least should know how to do a proper clutch adjustment which is done through the little plate behind the lever, and I think that may do the trick. Oft times somebody goes in them not knowing what they're doing and leave them in a fix as to shim placement and all. The job takes about thirty minutes, and you'd have time to drink a cup of coffee doing it. You just pull up a stool and do the little routine.

Happy New Year also to you and yours.

Pon

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James in MO

01-05-2004 20:30:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: D-17 doesn't have neutral in reply to Pon, 01-04-2004 21:47:42  
Well the Allis dealer said not to even bring it in since I didn't have any trouble with the actual hi/lo he said all the problem was is that the oil was cold. He gave me three things to check cold oil (It is 4 below right now) the right oil he said some people put 80/90 in them and that is bad and also to make sure the handle was tight and centered but since the hi and LO was strong he didn't think there was a problem at all and he cost himself 2 hours labor in doing so (he quoted me 2 hours to completly adjust everything) so at about 2:00 today I became an Allis Chalmers owner Thank you again for your help.

James

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Pon

01-05-2004 20:52:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: D-17 doesn't have neu in reply to James in MO, 01-05-2004 20:30:47  
Good to hear from you Sir. I guess I misunderstood so please excuse me. I knew you said you had no neutral, but I thought you said once that you could hold the tractor with its brakes in the high or the low range. I guess I should have interpreted that to mean you could hold the tractor when the lever was in neutral with the brakes. You definitely don't want 80 or 90 weight oil in, the proper viscosity is 20 weight motor oil. But the clutch not having a neutral because it's cold I don't so much agree with for these tractors could definitely be worked in the cold.

When you get a chance, check that oil and get any heavy transmission stuff it may have in it out. Then refill with 20 weight motor oil. Then start the tractor and push the button down while moving the lever slowly back and forth where it appears neutral should be. When you find the best spot, see if releasing the button will cause the latch to fall in its notch on the bracket it goes in. If not, you can loosen those two bolts that hold that and slide the bracket a little one way or the other for its holes are slotted. Then when you put the latch in its notch by releasing the button it will be in its neutral.

I hope your dealer is right and all goes well, but I would have it checked and adjusted just the same because the adjustment is not just for the high and low, it is also for the neutral. If the total stack of shims, for example, is not correct then you'd have trouble with neutral. It's no big deal, maybe you'll do fine without it, which I hope. But if it doesn't act right to suit you, get them to check it because it is a fine setup that works really well when it's right.

Good luck and God Bless. Holler if I can help. My Dad and I were a dealer also for nearly thirty years.

Pon

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James In MO

01-04-2004 06:13:07




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 Re: D-17 doesn't have neutral in reply to James in MO, 01-03-2004 19:06:34  
The handclutch lever will latch intot he neutral position but it shifts into low.I tried holding the lever at different positions between hi and lo thinking maybe it was an adjustment problem but when it gets all the way away from the operater it shifts into hi but when you start to pull it back it shifts into lo. There was a post earlier about it being a two stage wet clutch and I do not understand that I am usde to MF teo stage dry clutch where there are a pto disc and a transmission disc. Please help me with this as I have to make a decision on weather or not to buy it tomorrow and if this is going to be a major expense I am not going to buy it

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Need Better Description

01-04-2004 03:42:07




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 Re: D-17 doesn't have neutral in reply to James in MO, 01-03-2004 19:06:34  
Need more detail of what the tractor is doing. Can't help from what you have written.



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James In MO

01-04-2004 06:17:20




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 Re: Re: D-17 doesn't have neutral in reply to Need Better Description, 01-04-2004 03:42:07  
The handclutch lever will latch into neutral but the tractor is actually in low I slowly moved the lever back and forth between hui and lo and it shifts fine but there is no neutral anywhere between hi and lo all the fluids are clean I just don't know weather or not it is going to be a major expense or not if so I will not buy the tractor oir he will have to fix etc.



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Sid

01-04-2004 06:45:02




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 Re: Re: Re: D-17 doesn't have neutral in reply to James In MO, 01-04-2004 06:17:20  
James sorry my answer last night wasn't any help I was thinking it might be a simple fix I have operated a few D series tractors and own a 170 but have not had or heard of that problem.



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sid

01-03-2004 19:43:52




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 Re: D-17 doesn't have neutral in reply to James in MO, 01-03-2004 19:06:34  
Are you holding the button down? If so then it will move from low to high and high to low. If you move the stick without holding button down it should lock in neutral. You said "while trying to figure out the handclutch" makes me think that you do not have a problem other than being unfamiliar with the tractor. If you are not holding the button down and it does this I do not feel that the problem is serious as it would more than likely be something with the rod being broke or worn or the button could be missing. Hope this helps.

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