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Compression Problem on 190 gas that's been sitting

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Bill

11-28-2003 17:35:23




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I've already got 2 strikes against me....I don't claim to much of a mechanic, and I've never touched AC's before....but I like to try anyway.

This tractor supposedly ran OK when it they parked it 10 years ago...and it did have antifreeze in it the entire time. As of this morning, it didn't have much/any compression on 5 of the 6 cylinders. After pulling the valve cover, we could see that the intake valve on those 5 cylinders was sticking down, and then veeeerrrrry slowly rising back up. The push rods on two cylinders we not even under the tappets any more.

After lots of WD40 and prying back up on the valve springs, we appeared to be in business as all the valves now appear to be working quite smoothly....until I went around and did a quick compression test with my finger over the spark plug holes. Two of the cylinders still have no compression. Looking through the spark plug hole, the pistons do appear to be going up & down.

I'm just looking for your best guesses on the cause, based on the history of it sitting. I'm just not sure what things would usually cause low compression vs. no compression...and this sure appears to be NO compression to me. If the rings were just worn, I would guess low compression. The only other things I can think of are bad head gasket, cracked head, bad valves and/or seats, cracked block, bad/broken pistons.

I'm really not looking forward to tearing it down, but it looks like that's where we're heading.

Thanks.

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Joseph Tucci Jr.

12-01-2003 18:49:59




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 Re: Compression Problem on 190 gas that's been sit in reply to Bill, 11-28-2003 17:35:23  
first due comp. test dry and wet then rent a cyl. leak down tester put low cyl. on TDC put leak test. in cyl. spark plug hole add comp. air 40 psi listen for leak IE if air leaks out of ex. bad ex. valve out of carb. bad intake valve oil pan bad rings



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daveo

11-28-2003 21:37:31




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 Re: Compression Problem on 190 gas that's been sit in reply to Bill, 11-28-2003 17:35:23  
If there are no mechanical failures (broken crankshaft, rods) and everything moves like it is working dump a few ounces of motor oil in each cylinder. If you want to build compression the oil will help seal the leaky rings. I bought a �dry� car engine like that once. We had fuel & spark but no fire. When I approached the guy I had bought it from about our difficulty in trying to get it to run he said,

�Dump a Quart of Oil down the M()!%#%*#^+KER .�

I couldn�t believe what I had just been told�engines burn gasoline, not oil.

I said, �What�

He repeated,� �Dump a Quart of Oil down the M()!%#%*#^+KER .�

I needed an explanation, and eventually I understood�. I was to take a one-quart container of regular crankcase oil and slowly pour it into the carburetor with the throttle partly open while cranking the engine with the starter. Surprise, doing so increased the compression from the additional sealing effect of the oil and the engine started long before I�d finished pouring the entire quart into the carburetor. When the oil smoke had cleared we had a smooth running engine!

What had happened is the engine had become �dry� from sitting such a long time. When we wanted to start it we primed it by dumping gasoline down the carburetor and that washed what little oil was on the cylinder walls away. Engines depend on oil for its sealing effect as well as cooling and lubrication.

I went back to the guy who gave me the advice

and told him, �The M()!%#%*#^+KER� started!�

He knew it would. That was the last time that engine ever gave us any compression problems because after it had been run awhile the normal amounts of oil inside the engine sealed the cylinders.

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old

11-28-2003 20:03:35




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 Re: Compression Problem on 190 gas that's been sit in reply to Bill, 11-28-2003 17:35:23  
If 2 of them are not going up and down it can be onlt two things broken rods or a broken crank. How do you know they are not moveing it maybe that the rings are stuck if so put some turpentine in the cylinders for a day or so and see what happensand or start it on the cylinders that have com. and don't put any coolant in the system to let it get a little hot then shut it down and let it cool if its stuck ring that may brake them loose. Hope this helps

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Joe(TX)

12-01-2003 14:14:59




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 Re: Re: Compression Problem on 190 gas that's been in reply to old, 11-28-2003 20:03:35  
A broken rod or crank would not cause 2 valves to stick. It would cause a considerable amount of noise. I sounds like build up on the valves an sets an probably some stuck rings. Use some goog penetrating oil ald hope for the best.



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Bill

03-02-2004 08:56:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Compression Problem on 190 gas that's in reply to Joe(TX), 12-01-2003 14:14:59  
UPDATE!!!! We finally got back around to playing with the 190. After this posting last fall, we decided to put a mixture of every penetrating oil known to man in the cylinders and let it sit. When we turned her over this weekend, one of the cylinders had compression, but the other still didn't. I used a suggestion from Clooney on the JD discussion board, which worked pretty slick. I took an old spark plug and knocked the porcelain out of it. He recommended then welding an air fitting onto it, and shoot compressed air into the cylinder. (I actually ended up just taking a long valve stem and eventually got it jammed down into the now hollow spark plug.....which actually worked pretty slick.) The air is going to most likely come out 1 of 4 places indicating where the problem lies....the exhaust, the carburetor, the crankcase, or the radiator (or maybe a cylinder if two of them side by side have weak compression).

The result???? In this case it came out the exhaust stack. We did some more playing around with that valve (just lubricating it and prying it back up as we turned the motor over), and got some compression pretty quickly. We shot a little starting fluid in each cylinder, spun her over, and listened to her slowly come out of retirement. Once she blew all the cobs out, she actually ran pretty good. We still have some more work to do, but it's good to know that a teardown hopefully isn't necessary. We can't get it to run very well without it being partially choked, and a couple of the push rods appear to be a little bent that will need replaced (which I assume we did when we first tried to turn it over not knowing some of valves were stuck.)

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gr

12-19-2003 17:33:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Compression Problem on 190 gas that's in reply to Joe(TX), 12-01-2003 14:14:59  
Are the two cylinders without compression beside each other by chance? If so, the head gasket may have blown between them in such a fashion that there is no leakage of oil or coolant. As one cyl comes up, it moves the air into the next cylinder, and vice versa. My experience. Good luck.



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