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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
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Jump Startin + ground AC-- B

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Jim Sharp

11-26-2003 15:05:07




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Need instructions on how to jump start a positive ground 1941 AC B Tractor-- its 6 volt. Help appreciated. Jim




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Pon

12-03-2003 12:02:26




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 Re: Jump Startin + ground AC-- B in reply to Jim Sharp, 11-26-2003 15:05:07  
Jim,

Steve at B&B is right, there's more to this jump starting bit than it used to be. Plus, it's really always been dangerous and folks have gotten burned and hurt doing it. But we so often just don't think about things or take them for granted and go on.

That said, we all know it's done, and I've done it many times myself. And I've jump started plenty of 6 volt system with 12 volts and gotten away with it. But like in a lot of things, moderation is the key. Don't connect the terminals until you're ready to start it. Connect it correctly and carefully, start it quickly then unhook it right then. You should be through in a few seconds. I've seen folks get one started then leave it connected for whatever reason and that's when the 12 volts starts to work on a 6 volt system. We watched a self propelled combine do that trick one day. The smoke started back at the engine then just worked its way right on up to the front where the controls were. Not a pretty sight.

Some think that Allis-Chalmers was weird making their system a positive ground, but where it might be somewhat unusual, it's not so much so. There were Studebakers (of course they were weird too!), Chryslers, De Sotos, Dodges, Fords, Hudsons, Henry J's, Kaisers, Lincolns, Mercurys, Nash and Plymouth to name a few. Not all of those were positive ground, but many were. The theory of an electrical system does in some measures support grounding the positive. But it didn't catch on so hot, did it? God Bless and good luck.

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Ken/Wa

11-27-2003 09:04:26




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 Re: Jump Startin + ground AC-- B in reply to Jim Sharp, 11-26-2003 15:05:07  
Here is a post from Zane on the ford N forum that may help you.

When jump starting a tractor with 12 volts it not necessary to hook the 12 volts to the 6 volts battery at all. As a matter of fact I strongly reccomend against it.
Instead hook the 12 volts directly to the frame of the tractor for the ground and with the transmission in neutral and out of the way of the wheels of the tractor so you don't get run over touch the other cable from the 12 volt source to the post on the starter.
By doing it this way you don't even have to worry about the polarity of the batterys or which cable you have to ground or positive to the frame or the starter as the 6 volt systme is not entered into at all with the 12 volts. Just turn on the switch and touch the hot cable to the starter post and it will go.

I would get some starting fluid and spray into the air intake before attempting to start. Turn the ignition switch on and hit the jumber wire to the starter post. If it will start on starter fluid sprayed in the air cleaner you have problems in the fuel system. If it won't try to start with starter fluid you have ignition problems and should start from the battery and follow the path of the current to the coil and then the points and condenser etc. Sparkplugs etc.

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Plant Doctor

11-29-2003 06:23:50




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 Re: Re: Jump Startin + ground AC-- B in reply to Ken/Wa, 11-27-2003 09:04:26  
Ken: What Zane said on the Ford forum is correct, but it does not apply to all makes and models of tractors. The ford's starter is electrically isolated from the battery because there is a solenoid between the battery and starter which only lets current flow when activated. The AC-B is different, the stud on the starter is hot all the time, because the stud is directly attached to the battery via a battery cable. There is a manually operated switch on top of the AC starter that provides a connection between the starter and the visible stud on the starter. If you hook one 12v jumper cable to the fame of the AC-B and the other jumper cable to the started as described on the Ford forum, you are jumping 12v through the tractor's 6v battery. I know many people do this and have gotten away with it, but jumping 12v through a 6v battery causes the 6v battery to boil which produces hydrogen gas to escape at the top the the 6v battery. One small spark and you have the possiblity of an explosion.

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Herb Bradys

11-26-2003 18:40:44




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 Re: Jump Startin + ground AC-- B in reply to Jim Sharp, 11-26-2003 15:05:07  
always hook positive to positive and neg. to neg. no matter if it it a pos. or neg. ground.



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steve

11-26-2003 20:24:47




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 Re: Re: Jump Startin + ground AC-- B in reply to Herb Bradys, 11-26-2003 18:40:44  
take the + terminal cable off the battery. jump with your 12 volt truck with truck + to tractor frame and truck - to the starter terminal, or - battery post on tractor. after it starts, reconnect the battery cable. this way you dont have 6 volt and 12 volt shorted together.



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Steve in N.J.

11-27-2003 07:44:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Jump Startin + ground AC-- B in reply to steve, 11-26-2003 20:24:47  

I wouldn't really advise jump starting the system that way. If the battery is old and partially sulfated inside, it could explode and blow the side of the battery off, or you could possibly blow a diode out of the Alternator on board the truck. If it's a late model truck with an on-board computor, you could possibly spike the computor and take the computor right out also. That would be an expensive jump start!
Steve/B&B Custom Circuits

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