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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
:

Early D-10 tractor paint problems.

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John

09-18-2003 12:07:45




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I am new to the tractor game. I just bought back my wife's grandfathers D-10. He bought brand new in 1959-1960. The serial number is 10-1806 which makes it a 1959. I decided I would restore it and the implements but immediately ran into a snag. Somehwere in the 70's grandpa had the tractor repainted and it currently is a lighter color orange closely resembling the Persian Orange #1. According to all the books I read if the serial number is below 10-1950, which mine is, it should be using the older persian orange color with a silver grill and rims. Unfortunately if you go to a spot that was covered when it was reainted or where the paint has been worn or chipped you will find the original color is the darker persian orange #2 color. What color and color schme should I use on this tractor? Should I go with the color and scheme for 1959 that is "supposed" to be on it or do I go with the color Scheme that it originally was. I am interested in anyone and everyone's opinion.

Thanks

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Bill Hires

09-18-2003 15:57:59




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 Re: Early D-10 tractor paint problems. in reply to John, 09-18-2003 12:07:45  
The DuPont code book gives the following for Allis Chalmers. #2 T&I #2 Persian Orange code 29047D (921090) Dit.60856). 1960-1977 (DK Red Orange)(Ditzler 60080 and 60856 Martin Senour 9OR-37230 or RS620. (Used on D15, D15 Series II, D17, SN32001, D10 SN1950, D12, SN 1950, D19, D21 D21 Series II, 175, prior to 1978, 185, prior to 1978, 160 prior to 1972) (5040, 5055, prior to 1981.



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Rod (NH)

09-18-2003 18:45:15




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 Re: Re: Early D-10 tractor paint problems. in reply to Bill Hires, 09-18-2003 15:57:59  
Hi Bill,

A little caution on DuPont-to-PPG (and vice versa) cross references. The PPG (formerly Ditzler) 60080 is the early pumpkin shade of persian orange (persian #1, so called). PPG lists two "persian oranges". One is 60080 and the other is 60396. The DuPont-to-PPG cross that I have gets the two different persian oranges mixed up. I was so confused on the matter over a year ago that I actually bought a quart of the two PPG numbers (60080 and 60396) to find out what each shade actually was. Here's a visual comparison of the two. Some additional info is here. I don't know about the DuPont 60856 number.

third party image Rod

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John

09-20-2003 00:50:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Early D-10 tractor paint problems. in reply to Rod (NH), 09-18-2003 18:45:15  
So which color did you end up putting on your tractor?



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Rod (NH)

09-20-2003 06:42:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Early D-10 tractor paint problems. in reply to John, 09-20-2003 00:50:41  
I used the early persian (60080). I did so because I simply liked the early shade more than any desire to be "original". Mine is a '42 B and I don't like a lot of red in my orange :o). It's your tractor and you should paint it whatever color or shade you prefer, unless of course, you are doing it to please someone else. Serial number lists and books are not 100% perfect. If your desire is to be exactly original, you have the best evidence possible in the original underlying paint.

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John

09-22-2003 14:09:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Early D-10 tractor paint probl in reply to Rod (NH), 09-20-2003 06:42:51  
Rod,
Thanks for the info. All things being equal I probably would opt fo the lighter color since it was the "original" color but my wife remembers it the day Grandpa brought it home from the dealer brand new and shiny. That means we go with the darker color the factory put on it. I bought a digital camera so that I could take lots of picture during the process. I'll probably build a WEB site to keep the pictures on so others can see. By the way this thing, from what I can tell, is a 1959 d-10 hi-row with just about every option and several 3pt AC implements with manuals and everthing. would you think it is very rare?

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Bill Hires

09-19-2003 15:13:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Early D-10 tractor paint problems. in reply to Rod (NH), 09-18-2003 18:45:15  
Rod,
The information I use comes from a code book put together by a group of fellows with knowledge of old tractor paint colors. The title is Tractor and Implement # 3 Color Group DuPont Company dated 02/22/01.I double check to be sure the codes are exactly as written in the book after I type them here. I have painted numerous Allis-Chalmers tractors always with paint and decals furnished by the AC dealer.
Bill

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steve

09-19-2003 17:59:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Early D-10 tractor paint problems. in reply to Bill Hires, 09-19-2003 15:13:31  
Rod is right about the 60080 PPG- old Ditzler number for PUrsian #1. used it several times. About the other numbers and Pursian #2--- sounds right.



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Wally G.

09-18-2003 15:57:55




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 Re: Early D-10 tractor paint problems. in reply to John, 09-18-2003 12:07:45  
Go with the original paint and scheme that is called for. Sometimes the original paint darkens with age and thats why you have the problem you do. With the time it takes to restore it, do it right the first time. When you get it done put a picture of it on the site, and make sure you take before and after shots. Good luck



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John

09-19-2003 23:13:08




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 Re: Re: Early D-10 tractor paint problems. in reply to Wally G., 09-18-2003 15:57:55  
Thanks for the info Wally. A bit of clarification, do you mean the original color scheme that was on the tractor when it was new or the one it should be based on the serial number. If I could figure out how to attach a photo I could show you some samples. The color that is on the tractor now is the color called for based on the serial number. The color it was originally is the newer Persian orange #2. It is quite confusing. I will be posting some pictures soon that show the tractor and the factory disc as it is right now. This winter I plan to completely retore it. Al the gauges work but I would be interested in knowing if there is a source for replacement dials. Also I would like to find decals for the Disc. Since I have all the manuals for all the attachements that came with it I would like to restore them as well. Lastly do you know of a source for a AC plow to fit this tractor. It is about the only thing I don't have.

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Greg

09-18-2003 15:16:01




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 Re: Early D-10 tractor paint problems. in reply to John, 09-18-2003 12:07:45  
John,
You may already have this information but I’ll forward just in case. According to the Allis Chalmers Data Book by Terry Dean, D-10 tractors prior to serial number 1950 are Persian Orange (#1), the grills are silver with black border and three horizontal black bars, and the wheels are orange with silver rims. Serial numbers after 1950 are Persian Orange #2, the grills are plain cream colored , and the wheels are cream with silver rims. However he also states that the ending serial number of 1950 for model year 1959 is only a guess. I quote “The exact numbers are not known, but less than 950 units were built this way until 1960. The later D-10 models had no black bars and were painted the newer Persian Orange #2.”. Maybe the ‘guess’ of 950 units for 1959 is way high? Have you checked the undercoats on the wheels and radiator cross-members? Good luck and let us know what you find out.

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John

09-22-2003 14:17:03




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 Re: Re: Early D-10 tractor paint problems. in reply to Greg, 09-18-2003 15:16:01  
Greg,
Thanks for the info. I went out and bought Terry's data book and it just got me more confused. My guess is that my tractor was one of the last out of the door in 1959. By then they were into building the 1960 models and just sprayed it the newer color. They seem to have folowed the 1959 paint scheme since the grill is silver and the wheel centers are orange, not cream. My wife remembers the day Grandpa bought the tractor and brought it home and remembers it with the darker orange color when it was bright and shiny. Guess that will be the color I will go with.

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