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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
:

12 V Conversion (that doesn't work)

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tushuz414

08-14-2003 19:36:56




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A few years ago I bought a WD45 that had been 'converted' to 12 V. It wouldn't keep up the battery so I replaced the alternator that had a self contained regulator. The tractor still doesn't charge. All connections are good (no corrosion). Any ideas? Thanks for you ideas/help




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steve

08-15-2003 19:15:10




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 Re: 12 V Conversion (that doesn't work) in reply to tushuz414, 08-14-2003 19:36:56  
hopefully you have the delco unit with two spade terminals on the side. the one with internal voltage regulator has the two terminals in a striaght line like this - - and not side by side like ll. The terminals are marked 1 (R) and 2 (F). The number 2 terminal is always hot (12 volt) and connected to the big terminal on the back which also has a #8 wire routed to the amp meter or battery. The number 1 wire is the "signal" or "excitation wire". It must be routed thru a resistor to get a small voltage drop to make it "kick in" and charge. It also must go thru a key or switch that can be turned off when the motor is not running. The small resistor in the line should make a 3 wire generator charge at lower RPM as others have mentioned, this is a problem with tractors. If you have a cap over these two spade terminals and it is called a "one wire" alternator--- think about the pulley they mentioned..If you need a wiring diagram or more info on the resistor- just ask. You need to test with a volt meter to see if/when the alternator is putting out.

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Jessica Morris

05-14-2004 13:58:26




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 Re: Re: 12 V Conversion (that doesn't work) in reply to steve, 08-15-2003 19:15:10  
I just wanted to know if anyone knows where or has a Wiring Diagram ( Schematic ) for Ford Tractor, Model # 6610, Year model 1984 and one for International Tractor, Model # 584, Year Model 1984 also if so please contact me as soon as possible thank you Jessica



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Steve in N.J.

08-15-2003 17:03:02




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 Re: 12 V Conversion (that doesn't work) in reply to tushuz414, 08-14-2003 19:36:56  
You mentioned the alternator you installed has a self contained regulator. Are you referring to an internal regulatored alternator or a 1 wire alternator? Rule of thumb that I always go by is if it's not a working tractor, don't use a 1 wire alternator. As the fellows mentioned, depending on the regulator in a 1 wire unit, it usually takes 1400-1800 rpm to "excite" a 1 wire's regulator to start the charging mode. Short trips, & shutting the tractor on and off often doesn't give the alternator a chance to build the reserve up in the battery and eventually she won't start. A working tractor on the other hand with a 1 wire will work fine, because after an hour or two of work, the battery's reserve is quite high, and there's no problem in starting the machine. If you have a 3 wire internal regulated alt, check out Duey's schematics. You might have left out the "exiter" circuit to turn the alt on. We can help you out with one of our 12V conversion harnesses if you decide to redo it, but Du's schematics work great for folks who like to do-it-yourself...Good Luck! Hope you find the problem.
Steve/B&B Custom Circuits

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Duey (IA)

08-15-2003 16:14:21




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 Re: 12 V Conversion (that doesn't work) in reply to tushuz414, 08-14-2003 19:36:56  
Check out my web page for wire diagrams. Duey



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Tyler(WA)

08-15-2003 08:15:28




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 Re: 12 V Conversion (that doesn't work) in reply to tushuz414, 08-14-2003 19:36:56  
Typical "One Wire Alternator's" do have to spin a bit faster than regular ones to charge. You can go to a smaller pulley or use an internally regulated alternator with the separate sense and exciter leads. If yours is already one of those, you can jumper both the exciter and sense leads to the output post (small wire) and run the output post to the battery (big wire.) As long as you have a clean ground and the tractor is at fast idle, you should have charge. From there, you can start moving wires back to "proper" configuration.

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Rick ('50 B, NC)

08-15-2003 05:51:50




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 Re: 12 V Conversion (that doesn't work) in reply to tushuz414, 08-14-2003 19:36:56  
If you bought the "one-wire" alternator, you may not be able to turn the alternator fast enough to "excite" the alternator and cause it to charge. I had that problem on my Model B that I converted and went back to the old style 3-wire alternator and it works fine now.



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Dennis

08-15-2003 07:14:33




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 Re: Re: 12 V Conversion (that doesn't work) in reply to Rick ('50 B, NC) , 08-15-2003 05:51:50  
If the problem is not enough rpm's to exite the alternator, you can go to a smaller belt pulley. (Just a thought). Do you know for sure the alternator is a good one. You should be able to remove the battery ground cable while running. If the motor dies, you have alternator trouble. Good luck. Dennis



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Bus Driver

08-16-2003 14:05:35




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 Re: Re: Re: 12 V Conversion (that doesn't work) in reply to Dennis, 08-15-2003 07:14:33  
With many alternators, removing a battery cable while the vehicle is running wiil ruin some of the diodes. Removing the cable causes the alternator regulator to have no reference voltage feedback and the regulator then causes the alternator to produce the maximum possible voltage- could be 100 or more. On my engines, I never disconnect the battery while running- regardless of the charging system.

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Dennis

08-16-2003 15:33:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 12 V Conversion (that doesn't work in reply to Bus Driver, 08-16-2003 14:05:35  
You should not leave the cable disconnected for any length of time. A couple seconds is enough to do it. If the engine is going to die, it will die immediately. It is just a quick check. It would be better to take the alternator to a parts store and have it checked with test equipment.



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