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D17 Gas repair questions

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Virgil Walden

06-05-2003 14:13:46

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Well, I pulled my Radiator off and had it repaired, then I was going to pull the thermostat out and all 3 bolts broke off. Any ideas, the best way to get hem out? I got an extractor, but don't know exactly how it works, do you have to drill it first or something? There are no directions on it.
I have been looking at ways to get the engine done, but now have about decided to try and fix some things myself. First I have water in the oil, so I assume the head gasket is bad, so I want to change it, any ideas on what the head bolts have to be retorqued too? Also, I am loosing alot of all from the Main seal, so I got one of those also and all the associated gaskets, same with the Head gasket. I have no idea what I need to do to change the Main seal. I know I need (I suppose to pull the block from the transmission housing, and drop the oil pan. Other than that, I don't know where to start. I did get some good bolt penetrating spray to spray all the bolts before I start. The engine had pretty good oild pressure and it doesn't smoke much, but seems it may have a little blow by, so I don't know, I just can't afford to have the whole thing rebuilt or find a used one right now. I am unemployed and looking for work. Any suggestions on any of this would be great and if there are some other things I need to check or do while I am attempting this, please let me know. I have never done this before. Thanks

Sincerely;

Virgil

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wdTom

06-08-2003 16:41:24

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Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to Virgil Walden, 06-05-2003 14:13:46

I forgot to mention about getting the broken bolts out. How I got mine out, same three, was to bolt the housing to a plate using whatever, I don't remember, to clamp it solid. Then mount it on my milling machine and drill a hole as close t center as I could, Then with a small endmill I went donw the same hole, then moving the table a little at a time I enlarged the hole until I could just see the threads visible as a rust line spiraling down into the hole. Then you get the top of the thread started with a pick and pull it out in one piece, (usually). This is the best way to get broken bolts out if you have access to or a firend with a milling machine, and can get the part in the machine. If not it is the old drill and hammer and chisel, and pick away it method. Good luck. I am using more and more grease and anti-scieze on threads as time goes by. A little in the hole or nut, and a little on the bolt.

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Terry

06-07-2003 06:47:38

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Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to Virgil Walden, 06-05-2003 14:13:46

What bugs me is that water leak...find the source of it first, because if you have a cracked block or head, what good is the other work going to matter? I would get that ruled out first....Terry

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Virgil Walden

06-07-2003 07:23:45

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Re: Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to Terry, 06-07-2003 06:47:38

Hello terry, I know you are right. Guess that is why I need to get it really cleaned up good first. I do know that I had a bad radiator leak, and I think I know there is water in the oil, because the oil gets milky looking on the dip stick. I really don't know what to do, because i can't afford anything else and I would hate to do all this work just to find out the block is cracked or something. I won't deny that it has gotten pretty darn hot at times. I just don't know what I should do first. I had the radiator repaired and I have new hoses etc. Would you suggest that I clean it off real good, put it back together and see if I can see if the block is leaking first? I have another problem with the thermostat housing. I wanted to pull the thermostat and put a new one in there, so I attempt it and all 3 bolts twisted off, then I got to looking and looks like someone put one in there that is too small and it is actually laying sideways in there. I took it to the AC place in Athens and i asked the guy, I said what is that in there, because it didn't llo like a thermostat to me the way it was sitting and he said it was in there wrong. So now i have to drill out the bolts. Problem, Problems. Thanks for the suggestion and I think you are right.

Virgil

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Terry

06-07-2003 18:31:55

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Re: Re: Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to Virgil Walden, 06-07-2003 07:23:45

Check those soft plugs under the valve cover first. Then email me with what you find.

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Virgil Walden

06-08-2003 06:47:22

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Re: Re: Re: Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to Terry, 06-07-2003 18:31:55

Terry, Will do. I think I will try and get it cleaned up and put back together today and see what happens. I need to clean the engine off good and then put the radiator and hoses back on. I need to get those bolts out of that thermostat housing and get that wrong therm. out of there too, you reckon? I tell you when it rains it pours. I have recently started back to school to get my Masters degree and I have about 300 paged to read, the tractor is broke. Yesterday when I got in my 1988 Mazda to go to the store the engine started running away and the only way I can stop it is to shut it off, not a linkage problem so must be something in the carb. I have three chicks in a tub that they are outgrowing, so i need a coop. I have an awning laying on the garage floor from Sunsetter I need to get put up. I got laid off from my job back in September, so I am unemployed and looking for a job. I took a job in Mn that was suppose to be good for 6 years plus and I spent 17 months there and got laid off due to DOD cancelling a contract. I spent 8 months by myselg, got the family up there in Dec 2001, closed on a house in Jan 2002 and got laid off in Sept, so I had a house there and a house here in Alabama, so the 24th and 25th of Dec we were on the road driving back to Alabama and I am still unemployed. So that's a little of what I am confronted with and nothing seems to be going right. Sorry to bother you with all my problems. I am sure there are others in the same boat or worse.

Virgil

PS So you suggest I pull the valve cover first and check those plugs?

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wdTom

06-08-2003 16:34:13

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to Virgil Walden, 06-08-2003 06:47:22

You do have a few things to deal with. I hope things start going smoother for you real soon. As for the oil and water. If it isn't the plugs in the head, pull the pan off and see if you can see where water is leaking down from a cylinder liner. or possibly from a crack in the block between nos. 1&2 or 3&4, these are the two places that are often cracked. And there are various fixes for these cracks too, doesn't mean you are going to be looking for another block. Definately find out where the water is conning from if you can before taking it apart.

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Virgil Walden

06-09-2003 06:03:45

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to wdTom, 06-08-2003 16:34:13

Well, the plugs appeared to be ok, so I put it all back together and today I am going to fire it up and see what happens.I bought some kind of sealer that is suppse to repair block leaks. Does anyone suggest I use this first and see what happens? Thanks

Virgil

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Terry

06-09-2003 13:59:33

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: D17 Gas repair questio in reply to Virgil Walden, 06-09-2003 06:03:45

leave the valve cover off and check everything under it while it is running. Pressure will show you where the leak is if its a softplug. Terry P.s. email me a tyount@alltel.net

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Bryan

06-06-2003 05:56:52

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Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to Virgil Walden, 06-05-2003 14:13:46

Virgil, you might tell us your location and maybe you will be close to someone on here and they could stop by and give some guidance. I think it is great you are willing to try this yourself but sounds like you could use someone with a little experience to guide you.

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Virgil Walden

06-06-2003 06:02:03

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Re: Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to Bryan, 06-06-2003 05:56:52

I am located in Hazel Green, Alabama

Virgil

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JMS/MN

06-05-2003 22:17:02

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Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to Virgil Walden, 06-05-2003 14:13:46

It is not necessary to split the tractor to remove the engine from a D17. Splitting would involve blocking the front half from tipping, etc. From your own admissions, I would say you are way in over your head in regard to fixing what you 'think' is wrong. I would recommend that you find someone who is more familiar with your tractor, and is willing to teach you what you need to learn about maintenance and repair.

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wolfy

06-05-2003 18:47:21

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Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to Virgil Walden, 06-05-2003 14:13:46

The rear main seal on our D-17 was a two-piece thick felt. (Ours is a 1959) Being a two 180 degree arc seal, we didn't have to split the tractor totally. Dropped the oil pan-that means have a new oil pan gasket ready-take off the starter(it was in the road; we did have to loosen the frame where it attached to the clutch housing- mainly the bottom bolts. If you have a helper, the person with the smallest hands can work the top half nearly into position-the other guy should put something on the PTO shaft that he can turn ever so gently with say a large wrench(have pto engaged) & as you turn pto shaft, the top half(the tough part) will work its way into position with the help of the small fingered person. Bottom half easy. This felt main seal is not too expensive-you might want to buy two top halves in case you turn pto shaft too fast & mess one half up. Could remove spark plugs so engine & crank turns easier.

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Virgil Walden

06-05-2003 19:02:05

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Re: Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to wolfy, 06-05-2003 18:47:21

Thats the same one I got. It is the felt. I am really new at this so I don't understand about the PTO, how does it fit into the equation. I know I have to remove the oil pan and I assumed the engine or block would have to come loose from the transmission housing, right? So are you saying if you loosen these bolts the tractor will try and split apart? Someone mention blocking the front and rear so it wouldn't flip and I didn't understand that.

Virgil

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wdTom

06-05-2003 17:56:13

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Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to Virgil Walden, 06-05-2003 14:13:46

What you need is a manual, or two even. Different descriptions often help, different pictures help too. Also get parts book if you can find one. They are very educational to read and refer to as you need to see how parts go together. As for the water problem, how about checking the freeze plugs in the head, they can rust through and leak, they are on top og the head under the valve rocker arms. Easy to replace if in doubt. Keep us up to date, ask questions as they come up.

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Virgil Walden

06-05-2003 18:08:49

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Re: Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to wdTom, 06-05-2003 17:56:13

Thanks for the info. I have a operator manual and a parts manual, but no maintenance manual. So the freeze plugs are under the valve cover? Thanks

Virgil

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wdTom

06-06-2003 19:19:41

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Re: Re: Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to Virgil Walden, 06-05-2003 18:08:49

Yes, the freeze plugs are under the valve cover. On the pushrod side, there are two, spaced about equally along the head as I remember. If you decide to change them, drain the water out, (plug on left side of the engine near the front in front of the carburator) them hammer a screwdriver into the plug and pry it out. Use a socket from a socket wrench set and an extension to drive the new one in. You might put a little gasket compond on the edges of the new one. Don't drive it in too far. Look at how far the old ones are in before you remove them. You can probably get them at a auto parts store, standard size. Try for a reprint of an AC service manual, has a lot of information you can use. More than the operators manual, that is good too though for other information about your tractor.

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Virgil Walden

06-07-2003 06:32:03

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Re: Re: Re: Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to wdTom, 06-06-2003 19:19:41

Thanks for the information. I also went to Tractor Supply and guess what, I found a Shop Manual for a D17. I am going to chnage the rear seal and also the head gasket and I was looking through there about the removing the head and obviously there is more to it than I figured (naturally) It is talking about removing the rocker arm assembly and the push rods. It this hard to replace once I decide to put it back together? I was going to take the head while I had it off and have the valves ground etc. Thanks

Virgil

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WDTom

06-08-2003 16:27:27

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to Virgil Walden, 06-07-2003 06:32:03

The rocker arms and head are not hard to put back on. Just torque to the figures in your manual. Bring it up to this figure in several stages, not all at once, and follow the diagram as to which order you torque the studs.

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steve

06-05-2003 15:33:39

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Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to Virgil Walden, 06-05-2003 14:13:46

extractors work o.k., but like you said you need to drill a hole down the middle of the bolt first. I have had better luck starting with a 1/4 inch drill and trying to get it centered. grind the blolt shank flat, then center punch it first. if you get real close, go ahead and drill it again with a 5/16 drill, etc. Sometimes i go untill i can pick the bolt threads out with a awl, and never use the extractor. I also like to use a carbide bit concrete drill. Cuts real good in hard bolts. We can get the head bolt torque later, you got a long way to go before that. Gasket is not a major problem. The rear seal is a major job. You need to block both ends of tractor so it wont rolll over when you split it. A agree, if you intend to do this, get a book and read it 4 times before you start. If it dont leak too bad, might not wnat to do the rear seal right now, stick with the easier stuff.

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Virgil Walden

06-05-2003 18:14:13

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Re: Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to steve, 06-05-2003 15:33:39

Steve, I dont really understand what you mean about blocking it. You mean so it doesn't roll, like something behind the wheels, or something to hold something up? The rear seal leaks terribly, once I turn it off oil just pours out from the housing.

Virgil

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steve

06-05-2003 19:14:06

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Re: Re: Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to Virgil Walden, 06-05-2003 18:14:13

if you disconnect the mtor from the transmission, the motor is balanced on the front wheels and something holding up the back of the motor? the something is very important. and the front axle can "tilt" side to side so it has to be wedged to the frame so it will not rock.----- ---i did not know the seal was felt and split as mentioned above. i think he has a good idea. pull the oil pan off. then rotate the motor slowly and pull the felt off the top half of the crankshaft. the pto drive out the back of the tractor might be used to turn slowly with apipe wrench which will rotate the motor slowly. you could also use a hand crank on the front end below the radiator.----- -Virgil, not to be insulting, but your questions make me believe you have not spent much time as a mechanic. It might be a good idea to find a local guy or helper who has more experience and can guide you thru this. Even if you had to pay him for a day, and you do all the cleaning and grunt work, and use him when needed for guidance and instruction. Just a thought.

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wdTom

06-06-2003 19:33:27

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Re: Re: Re: Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to steve, 06-05-2003 19:14:06

Unless the seal is different than on my WD, which I doubt as they are the same block, it would be difficult to get the seal out and the new one into the upper half of the seal holder. The upper half of the seal is in a romoveable piece bolted to the block behind the flywhee. My WD nanual says "To replace the rear seal, remove the engine, oil sump, clutch and flywheel. Remove the rear main bearing cap and the upper seal retainer." Look in the parts book and see if there is a "seal retainer that goes on the back of the block to hold the upper half of the seal. The bearing cap holds the bottom half of the seal.
It may be possible, as someone said, to change the seal with the engine in the tractor, I don't know, I have never tried. If I had to do it I would remove it as the seal felt is a tight fit into the seal retainer and bearing cap. It would be a very difficult job trying to get it in from under the tractor I think. Far easier with the engine out and flywheel off. I would want the engine out and turned bottom side up, make it far easier to get the parts and gaskets all back in place with no oil leaks. Just my thoughts. I think the idea of finding someone with some experience to help is a good idea. There is nothing wrong with learning as you go, but you are going a little deep here a little too fast I think and you have heavy parts that could hurt you if they aren't supported properly as you take them apart. If you were closer by I would be gald to hlep, sorry I can't.

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Virgil Walden

06-06-2003 05:19:54

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Re: Re: Re: Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to steve, 06-05-2003 19:14:06

Steve, I appreciate the info and I don't feel the least bit insulted, that's why I am asking the questions, because I am not a mechanic and this is also the first tractor I have ever had. Thanks

Virgil

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Terry

06-05-2003 14:39:27

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Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to Virgil Walden, 06-05-2003 14:13:46

start by getting educated with a manual....they are very helpful...Terry

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Bob D. (La)

06-07-2003 14:30:32

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Re: Re: D17 Gas repair questions in reply to Terry, 06-05-2003 14:39:27

Terry, Don't know if you've attempted to drill and remove broken bolts yet, but I've had to remove manifold bolts on automobile heads twice in my lifetime. Both times, I used a left handed drill bit and both times the broken piece of bolt came out as I was drilling it so did not have to use the easy out. They are available through most parts supply stores and as I recall, cost a couple dollars a piece. Hope this helps you.
Bob D. (La)

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