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Burned Block

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Brad Gyde

04-14-2002 20:23:33




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I picked up a block for my wc, but it was in a tractor that was in a barn fire. It don't appear as it got too hot, as the tinwork on the tractor was barely warped, the rims did not have flatspots, and most of the aluminum pieces were not melted. The engine did roll over after I took off the rocker arms.

I want to know: Has anyone else used a burnt block, and did it all work out ok? Something was said to me about taking the temper out of the block, so the sleve o- rings would never seal

Opinion wanted on to use or not to use.

Thanks,

Brad

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m kuhns

04-15-2002 17:58:38




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 Re: Burned Block in reply to Brad Gyde, 04-14-2002 20:23:33  
We bought a MF 2805 that was burned to a crisp. The winshield in the cab, the dash, even the steering wheel was burned. The engine had all aluminum intake manifolds and an aluminum hydraulic reservoir on top of the engine. I got that hot that it melted the manifolds down the intake ports and on top ofhte pistons where the valves were open. The fire even melted the injection pump and ruined it. We used as torch and cleaned all of the aluminun out of the heads and reused them with success. The pistons weren't melted and the block was fine. I don't think you fire was this bad fromwhat you described. We bought the tractor cheap and had a donor tractor rebuild this one. With a burnt tractor, it takes a lot of time to fix and there are lots of problems that are unforseen.

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Joseph Turrisi

04-15-2002 17:47:47




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 Re: Burned Block in reply to Brad Gyde, 04-14-2002 20:23:33  
As far as i know engine blocks are not tempered I have rebuilt many a car/truck engines and some heavy equipment engines and have never heard of such a thing. Anyway as far as it being in a fire i don't see anything to worry about. After all this is how they clean engine blocks in alot of engine shops. What i mean is that a big oven is used to heat the block up to the point that all oil,greese,scum,ect is burn away with no problems. The only problem i can think of is if it had water sprayed on it when it was hot. Any engine shop should be able to check out your block for problems.

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Kelvin

04-15-2002 12:40:30




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 Re: Burned Block in reply to Brad Gyde, 04-14-2002 20:23:33  
I know its not AC, but In 1995 I was offered a burnt Minneapolis-moline ZB if I could haul it away. The tractor had burnt in a barn fire in 1962.

The block (and cast pistons) were still real close to original specs, so I re-used them in the rebuilt engine. I could have used the crankcase as well, if I had been energetic enough to clean it. It still had oil in it but had been hot enough that the babbitt flowed out of the bearings.

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Brian G. NY

04-15-2002 07:23:38




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 Re: Burned Block in reply to Brad Gyde, 04-14-2002 20:23:33  
Back around 1957 my Dad bought a '51 WD that had been thru a barn fire and left to set outside for 3 or 4 years. It was a real mess! One frame rail was bowed about 1-1'2" and the gas tank has permanent "ripples" in the top. He and I rebuilt this tractor back then when I was in H.S. We had to replace almost everything in the engine although, as I recall we did reuse the rods, the timing gears and the rocker arms and pedestals. My father passed away in '83 and I have probably put more hours on the ole WD since I retired in '95 than he did in all the years before that. It still runs perfectly. BTW, although the hydraulic pump was ruined, the tranny, differential and final drives were still in perfect condition; the original red primer was still on the inside of the housings. As Eric said, cast iron can withstand a tremendous amount of heat as it heats and cools reasonably slowly. After all, most woodstoves are made of cast iron.

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Eric Egland

04-15-2002 00:52:46




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 Re: Burned Block in reply to Brad Gyde, 04-14-2002 20:23:33  
Cast iron is pretty tough. Usually the things inside a block are the loosers in fires. A fire around an engine gets hot and then dies down. The cast iron absorbs the heat and cools slowly, all ok to cast iron. A problem may come from a clever fireman directing cool water stream at the block, causing stresses to form up in the metal. If this is seen to happen, or suspected, the block can be normalised in an oven. From what you describe, block should be ok.

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JMS/MN

04-14-2002 21:48:45




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 Re: Burned Block in reply to Brad Gyde, 04-14-2002 20:23:33  
I've always been told, if the radiator did not melt, the block should be ok, although every seal, rubber part, etc. would have to be replaced. On an overhaul, you'd do that anyway. Good luck.



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Brad Gyde

04-15-2002 20:44:17




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 Re: Re: Burned Block in reply to JMS/MN, 04-14-2002 21:48:45  
I did decide to re use the block. My neighbor used to run a IH dealership in our neighborhood, but closed up and now does repair in his shop. His dad is 85, and tells me that they used to put blocks into a fire to free them up. (and at 85, he still works on tractors... every day just like most of us younger fellas go to work) He also said if there wasn't no damage done to the valve covers or oil pan, it is probably not damaged.

I pulled the oil pan (And broke all but about 5 of the bolts off) and it was really clean. No melted bearings.. But there is a new problem.... I can't seem to get the cam out. The lifters are rusted in place.. any of you have a trick for me there??

I also believe that the rubber o seals DID NOT melt, as penetrating oil does not seem to seep down along the sleeves

I appreciate all of your help this far,

Thanks,

Brad

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Don, Luling LA

04-19-2002 07:53:46




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 Re: Re: Re: Burned Block in reply to Brad Gyde, 04-15-2002 20:44:17  
I have had stuck lifters before. If you can turn the engine over you can most likely free them. Put some penetrating oil on the lifters as good as you can. Try to tap the rocker arms so that the lifters will be driven back into their bore on all of the valves that aren't being driven open by the cam. Turn the engine over a little and tap some more on the other valves. Continue to do this until all of the valves begin to close on their own. Once you get them working on their own, if you can turn the engine over with a battery and starter you can pull the plugs, probably already done and just let it turn over like that, watch you don't overheat the starter. If you already have the head pulled you can just drive the lifters down with a wooden dowel or something like that as you turn the engine over, but will be a much slower process. This will help loosen them up pretty good. You may still have to contend with the part of the lifter at the bottom that doesn't go into the bore. There is a tool you can get that grabs in inside of the lifter to help you pull them, have seen it for the hydralic type where you have an inside snap ring groove cut on the inside of the lifter. Don't know how your lifters look to know of you can use this tool though.
Good luck

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