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Discussion Forum

Hard starting B

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03-05-2002 09:36:36

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I helped rebuild my friend's 'B' and it originally started easily. Now is starts after about 6 cranks (not electric start) but after it's warm, it will hardly start at all. Carb is freshly rebuilt and works fine.

Plenty of compression and good spark. Timing perhaps?

How is timing properly set for a 'B'?

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DPOST What weight oil ?

03-13-2002 06:12:26

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 Re: Hard starting B in reply to Tyler(WA), 03-05-2002 09:36:36  

In another lifetime many yeas ago, we used an RC Allis on our farm. The Allis was our only tractor that seen use in the winter. As it gets a bit cold here in MN we would use 10W oil durring the winter months. The tractor would start good with one or two cranks all winter. But come spring, when the temp was warmer it would be almost impossible to start. After we changed back to a thicker oil for summer operation, it would start fine again.

Apperarently the not enough of the thin oil would stay on the cylender walls in warmer weather so it would not start.

My guess is you have a thin oil in for break in, and its time to put in a thicker oil like 30W, 40W or 10W40.

Hope this helps


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Dave in Mo

03-06-2002 05:20:53

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 Re: Hard starting B in reply to Tyler(WA), 03-05-2002 09:36:36  
I'd bet a dime to a dollar that it's the impulse coupler on the mag. My WD drove me nuts like that too.....until I swapped out the mag. Thing would start great and then over the days would gradually get harder and harder to start. Borrowed a differnt mag and "bang" ran instantly. There's a reason that mags aren't used anymore!

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Butch (OH)

03-05-2002 14:01:43

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 Re: Hard starting B in reply to Tyler(WA), 03-05-2002 09:36:36  
Tyler, My son's B did the same thing. Timing, carb and everything was right-on too. Drove me crazy for a while. The problem gradually went away until it had about 20 hours on the rebuild. At that point it would start on the first, or second pull cold and the first warm. Just a thought.

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Duey (IA)

03-05-2002 13:45:22

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 Re: Hard starting B in reply to Tyler(WA), 03-05-2002 09:36:36  
Tyler, Timing a mag.
1. If you have taken the Mag. apart, the internal gears need to be timed. (Set points at .020)Now would be the time to install new points and condensor if you haven't already done so.
2. Remove the large cap and line the C mark on the fiber gear with the marked tooth on the steel gear. Tip= turn the engine backwards to get the steel gear tooth to stop straight up and position the C mark on the fiber gear straight down. This times the rotor to the points. It is pretty simple in theory. Like all four cycles, the piston comes to TDC (top dead center) twice for every time the magneto or distributor rotor goes around. The left side of the engine has a hole in the bell housing where you can see the timing mark on the flywheel.("B"&"C") ("WD" &" WD45" The timing mark is found by looking under the flywheel housing for a small hole possibly covered by a small plate held with two wing bolts.) The FIRE mark and the TDC mark are located on the flywheel through this hole. Use a little light colored paint to make seeing them much easier. 3. Take out the #1 spark plug, and put your thumb over the hole while hand cranking the engine(best to have all the plug wires off while doing this so the tractor doesn't try to fire) , the cylinder will force air past your finger on the compression stroke. (The other FIRE is the exhaust stroke and has the exhaust valves open so no air will come out of the plug hole).
4. When you feel the air coming past your thumb, look for the FIRE mark on the flywheel. When this mark is centered in the hole, the rotor on the mag should be just lower than the #1 lug on the mag. Looking at it as a clock, #1 lug should be near 10:00. Just before the lug is a plastic stud called the timing stud. Perfect timing is when the rotor points to the timing stud while the FIRE mark on the flywheel is centered in the hole. 5. If your rotor points to 5:00 your mag is 180 degrees off and needs to be removed and the coupling turned till you achieve 10:00. If it is not right on the timing stud, you can loosen the mag and rotate it until it is. 6. Put it all back together and time your spark plug wires 1-2-4-3 clockwise on the magneto cap.

I would also reset the valve lash to .015 to .020 when hot. Next thing I would do is throw away any Champion spark plugs you may have installed. Use ACs. Duey

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Dick L Hey Tyler

03-05-2002 13:10:21

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 Re: Hard starting B in reply to Tyler(WA), 03-05-2002 09:36:36  
You have a timing light don't ya?

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03-05-2002 14:00:36

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 Re: Re: Hard starting B in reply to Dick L Hey Tyler, 03-05-2002 13:10:21  
Sure do. I haven't seen any instructions as to how to use one with a 'B' though. Do I set it up on the 'fire' mark?

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Dick L

03-05-2002 15:17:06

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 Re: Re: Re: Hard starting B in reply to Tyler(WA), 03-05-2002 14:00:36  
use your 12 volt jumper battery to hook up the power leads and put sending wire to number one plug and get the fire line in the center of the check hole while shes a runnin. You only need 12 volt power to make the light work it dont make no never mind where the power comes from. Ifins ya don't have one of them new fangled jumper battery pack your car battery will do just fine. I wouldnt move any thing untill you have a light on er. You might be closer that you think, the way it was startin afore an all. Remember with her runnin ya want that FIRE line in the center of the check hole. The magneto has an auter matic advance when she is a runnin.

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03-06-2002 06:40:09

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Hard starting B in reply to Dick L, 03-05-2002 15:17:06  
Many thanks, Dick. That's what I was looking for. I know the mag is firing close because she runs fine, once you pull it over enough to get her started. I don't think it's fuel related because I can get fuel vapor out the stack if I crank too long with full choke. Compression is easy to feel and it's strong (I need to do a compression test, now that the rings are seated. It was good after rebuild.)

Perhaps a tune-up with new plugs and wires is in order but I wanted to check the timing first.

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Dick L

03-06-2002 14:02:38

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hard starting B in reply to Tyler(WA), 03-06-2002 06:40:09  
I have told this before but if you take the power jet out and blow it out with air pressure as well as blow back through where the power jet screws in. You have to have a puddle of gas under the the discharge tube when you start the engine. It does not take much of a speck of crap to keep it from having this gas ready to be sucked up through the carb into the engine. I took the carb apart a bunch af times two years ago on a three day in a row pull. Didn't want to start and then when you would get it started it didn't have full power. Clean it out like I said and was good to go for a short. Put in an inline filter and solved the problem.

There is a bunch of little things that you need to check. Your good enough of a mechanic to figure most of it out. With it startin good to start with means it is a purtty small bug.

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Dick L -- Tyler, I forgot

03-06-2002 14:07:08

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hard starting B in reply to Dick L, 03-06-2002 14:02:38  
To put this carb drawing blowup

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03-05-2002 13:03:22

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 Re: Hard starting B in reply to Tyler(WA), 03-05-2002 09:36:36  
Tyler, unless the valves are set too tight, I would think it is the ignition.. Once started, the "B" should spin right over on a re-start.!! Mags can be Great, and they can make you crazy..!! Above all---make SURE it is DRY, inside, and out..!! Starting a cold damp engine will cause moisture to go into the Mag and condense IF the engine is not Warmed up good to dry it out.. Over-nite Dew was the cause of many late starts for us.!! 4:30 in the morning trying to start them, and all they wanted to do was Back-Fire...Like a TON of Dynomite..!! ALL the Neighbors were awake, those mornings..!!!!

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Rick in NC

03-05-2002 10:21:34

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 Re: Hard starting B in reply to Tyler(WA), 03-05-2002 09:36:36  
I'll tell you how I set static timing on mine. Mine has a distributor, so a mag may be a little different.

1. Remove #1 spark plug, put finger in spark plug hole, and have someone crank engine until compression stroke starts - them stop cranking.

2. Look for hole in left side of bell housing between the two implement mounting bolt holes.

3. Have someone slowly crank the engine until you see a mark on the flywheel marked "TDC."

4. Stop cranking when the mark is in the middle of the hole.

5. Loosen the bolts on the distributor.

6. Turn the distrbutor clockwise, then counter-clockwise until you have about .001" clearance in the points.

7. Tighten the distributor.

Good Luck

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