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Confused on Allis C Timing

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Chuck

12-09-2001 20:28:14

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Could anyone help me with a timing question on my 43 C? It's running fairly well, but is missing here and there, so I went to check the mag timing for the first time ever (just inherited the tractor). I pulled the rotor cap, and now I'm totally confused. Here are the facts, which don't seem to add up (from what I've read).

1. When the FIRE mark shows in the left hole of torque tube, the rotor is in the 5:00 o'clock position. (looking "into" the magneto). I know that's wrong.

2. However, when I put my finger over the #1 spark-plug hole and crank, there's compression when the rotor is in the 10 o'clock position. That appears to be correct. Now I must confess I'm not even sure which cylinder is #1 (I'm new to this), but assume it's the front one. Front cylinder's plug wire is connected to the upper side of the cap, toward the engine, which is where #1 wire is supposed to be according to owners manual.

So it doesn't seem to add up. How could the fire mark show when rotor is in 5:00 o'clock position and the tractor still run? Could I have put the flywheel on 180 degrees wrong when I was doing the clutch and rear seal? It seemed to have offset bolt holes and only go on one way.

Thank you for any help you can provide.

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Chuck

12-10-2001 19:00:49

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Re: Confused on Allis C Timing in reply to Chuck, 12-09-2001 20:28:14

You guys were right; it wasn't really on the compression stroke. Cold fingers trying to feel air go by.

The rotor is now at 10 o'clock with the fire mark centered in the hole. The rotor is about 1/4 inch shy of the plastic timing boss. If I turn further the rotor gives a snap and goes closer to about 12 o'clock. By this time the fire mark is long gone.

Should the rotor reach the timing boss before or after the snap? By the way, I tried the timing light and the fire mark doesn't show at all.

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Butch (OH)

12-10-2001 20:40:15

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Re: Re: Confused on Allis C Timing in reply to Chuck, 12-10-2001 19:00:49

Chuck, If the magneto is original or has the correct impulse coupling installed it should trip at, or very near the "TDC" mark. Then when the engine starts the timing should be real close to the "fire" mark. This is due to the lag built into the impulse coupling. The rotor positions sound OK so don't worry about that for now. Try this, crank until you have the TDC mark in the top of the window then bump the motor with the hand crank (in small increments) until the impulse snaps and let us know where it is snaping in relationship to the marks, like halfway in between, closer to the TDC mark etc. There is limited timing adjustment range and if you are way off, you may be in for a little work to correct it.

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Chuck

12-12-2001 04:38:33

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Re: Re: Re: Confused on Allis C Timing in reply to Butch (OH), 12-10-2001 20:40:15

I'll check and write back. Might take a day or two until I can find somebody to crank while I watch, or visa versa. Thanks.

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Butch (OH)

12-10-2001 06:21:16

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Re: Confused on Allis C Timing in reply to Chuck, 12-09-2001 20:28:14

Like Steve said, If it runs at all it can't be 180 degrees out. If you look at the wires I'll bet the the number one spark plug wire is the the lower outside (right) hole of the magneto. Nothing wrong with that other than it isn't the way Allis put them together at the factory, seen many timed that way because the magneto was installed 180 degress out. If you wish to correct this condition, crank the motor untill the impulse coupling just trips. The carefully remove the magneto and rotate the drive 180 degrees, then reinstall it. (It is easier to turn it counter clock wise so you don't have to wind up the impulse spring) Then replace the wires starting with the number 1 wire in the top left hole (marked #1 on most caps) The tractor will run the same, but everthing will then make sense with the manual. If you get things turned wrong somehow just start from scratch. Remove the magneto. Run number 1 up to the TDC mark on the compression stroke. The drive dogs for the mag should be straight across, or flat. Remove the cap from the mag and turn it backwards(counterclockwise) until the lugs will align with the drive and the rotor is pointed towards the upper left. Install the wires per the book and you will be close enough to start it and check it with a light. Note: If the engine has been apart and the governor gear was not timed correctly this proceedure will not work. You will know if this is the case if the lugs are not straight across when the motor is at TDC.

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Butch (OH) Whoops!

12-10-2001 09:46:41

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Re: Re: Confused on Allis C Timing in reply to Butch (OH), 12-10-2001 06:21:16

I shoulda read your whole post before I answered. You C timing is correct. The #1 and #4 piston travel up and down together but on alternating strokes so one revolution of the crank from the #1 cylinder being lined up to fire will produce the same condition for #4 with the rotor pointed to fire that plug. A 4-cyle engine fires every other stroke of the piston. Sorry!

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ssteve

12-10-2001 05:40:03

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Re: Confused on Allis C Timing in reply to Chuck, 12-09-2001 20:28:14

Chuck, if it runs then it cant be 180 degrees off. No you did not put the flywheel on 180 degrees off. Remember the mag turns half as fast as the crank, so you can turn the flywheel 360 degrees (1 turn) and the mag will be back at the 10 o'clock position. Yes that is where no 1 cylinder is and yes no 1 is the front. I would guess that you are not realy on the compression stroke. Since it does run, turn the crank 360 degrees and back to the fire mark, then chech the mag timing to be at 10 o'clock. remember the mag "snaps" to the mark when it fires. you can slowly turn the crank and listen for the snap when you get to the fire mark. If you are that close you should probably use a timing light any way. The visual is just a way to get close to make it startup. Sometimes "missing here and there" is a dirty carburetor. Might consider that after the timing light.

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