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Seen this Allis B on ebay

Buffalo, NY area

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ShepFL

11-06-2001 12:10:00

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Surfing looking for some D10/D12 parts & pics and stumbled on this. Looks pretty clean. Passing along for those interested.

eBay Allis B with implements

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Brian Ahart (MO) - Butch is correct

11-07-2001 14:07:16

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Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to ShepFL, 11-06-2001 12:10:00

I recall a similar discussion a while back on the A-C forum.

Model B tractors with the late-style adjustable wide front end came with 5-hole rear dish wheels (same housings). I can't for a FACT say that they all came that way, but this is a factory configuration and can be documented by original "B" sales literature and several A-C books out there (including Mr. Swinford's) with original Allis sales photos. All of the B's I have seen with the late adjustable wide front have the 5-hole dished rear wheels, including a local, original, one-owner B with adjustable wide front end.

The Snap-Coupler kit for the Model B was also an Allis-Chalmers option. I have seen this in original sales literature as well. The snap coupler bell bolts on to an inverted (backwards) drawbar. No Traction Booster, but it works. This is the kit that is on Felgar's "B". I saw a NOS kit sell at a dealer auction in Missouri about 5 years ago. It was still in the original Allis-Chalmers box and sold for around $700 I believe. Among the items in the kit was a snap coupler bell which bolts to the drawbar and different style lift arm shaft. It would be a neat find.

Regards,
Brian

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DANG!!! Talk about some response (ShepFL)

11-07-2001 12:47:16

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Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to ShepFL, 11-06-2001 12:10:00

I know next to nothing about the little ACs much less AC in general. I am learning alot with my D10.

Thanks for all the info this post has gleaned. I will be providing progress updates on D10 later.

Regards,
ShepFL

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Dick L

11-06-2001 13:24:40

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Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to ShepFL, 11-06-2001 12:10:00

Did any one else notice the the B has a CA torque tube?

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Dick L

11-06-2001 13:40:10

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Re: Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to Dick L, 11-06-2001 13:24:40

I see it is already sold anyway but the tank support/tool box is from eather a C or CA rather than a B. I wonder what he got out of that original tractor that was always kept inside. I bet it was only drivin in the shade so the paint wouldn't fade. To bad he took a picture to back up his story.

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Eian

11-06-2001 14:42:07

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Re: Re: Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to Dick L, 11-06-2001 13:40:10

That may be a Ca torque tube, but I believe some of the newer B's had the attachment bolt holes on the side like that. Purpose was to except some CA implements.

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Dick L

11-06-2001 18:57:55

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to Eian, 11-06-2001 14:42:07

Don't think they put the starter upside down on any B's with the CA hand pull starter rod, or if you look at the left side of the torque tube at the holes where the bracket would get bolted to support the longer stearing arm of the CA. No mater how you look at it the tractor has been put togather from parts from more than one tractor which does not make it a bad tractor. If you buy it for an original tractor you been had. And that is dishonest!

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ken(NY)

11-07-2001 08:58:20

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to Dick L , 11-06-2001 18:57:55

I have a 1955 B that also has the pull rod for the starter. The AC ops manual I have also shows the starter pull rod in the pictures and description on how to start the tractor. The motor has the same marking by the dip stick and the torque tube looks the same too. The funny thing about this tractor is the serial number is stamped in reverse so you have to read it from left to right standing in front of the brake pedals. It was a Canadian tractor I got from New Brunswick last year. Were exported tractors serial numbers stamped in reverse? I've fixed it up but put cut down spokes on the front that certainly aren't original for that year!
third party image

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Dick L

11-07-2001 09:50:36

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to ken(NY), 11-07-2001 08:58:20

The newest manual that I have for the B's was mailed from Allis Chalmers in Milwaukee Oct. 23,1959 and does in fact show a hand starter pull rod up by the gas lever. However the pictures in the manual does not show the CA block or torque tube. Could be they did ship different than the pictures. Because of the things I pointed out other than those, still show that they are not shipped from the factory as shown in the pictures. I still like them as in the pictures.

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Dick L -- Spotted something else

11-06-2001 19:06:22

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to Dick L , 11-06-2001 18:57:55

If you look just in front of the dipstick you will see the spear shape that is cast into CA blocks only.

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Dick L Like this

11-06-2001 19:19:37

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to Dick L -- Spotted something else, 11-06-2001 19:06:22

a close up of one of my CA's engine blocks

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steve

11-06-2001 20:01:11

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to Dick L Like this, 11-06-2001 19:19:37

the other side view shows a hand crank hanking in front of the tool box. the front end is a B radiator wraparound, no lugs on the bottom. I wonder if it was really an early model B, with a hand crank. Either the engine went bad, or they wanted an electric start. The torque tube with starter, flywheel and probably the engine were taken off a CA to get the electric start setup with a higher HP motor???

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Dick L

11-07-2001 04:28:10

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to steve, 11-06-2001 20:01:11

I agree, there is nothiing wromg with useing all those parts. The tractor will work fine. If you bought this tractor as a an original antique tractor to restore for a show tractor and you are just starting out. You would have just been taken. If you still think that this tractor has all orginal parts take another look at the tool box cutout for the stearing and look at a few B's.

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Ron

11-06-2001 23:00:37

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to steve, 11-06-2001 20:01:11

On the cover of Old Allis News Summer 2001 is Charles Felgar's 1952 B and it has every thing that you people don't think it should have.

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Dick L

11-07-2001 04:30:56

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to Ron, 11-06-2001 23:00:37

Please Post a picture of that cover.

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Butch (OH)

11-07-2001 04:45:08

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to Dick L, 11-07-2001 04:30:56

Dick, Here is a photo of Felgar's B (if it works) I saw that B at Pennfield Ill. But I am not enough of a B 'spert to know about the changes you guys are talking about. It does have a factory snapcoupler setup on it. I looked those parts over real carefully, only one I have ever seen.

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Dick L

11-07-2001 05:30:47

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to Butch (OH), 11-07-2001 04:45:08

Nice Looking tractor. I see that it is set up as a two row tractor with the C wheels set in rather than set out which would mean that it has the C final drives. Even the last B made was a one row tractor. I see that there is not a starter rod of any kind so it must have been switched over to key start. To have the factory snap coupler it would have to have the CA 4 speed transmission to have the hydraulic pump with the higher volume oil flow. If that is the standard B front and not an adjustable one the tires would run on the rows.
With out front bosses the two row cultivators for a CA would not fit and with the wide front the C cultivators would not fit. It is still an croud pleaser and a fun tractor own I am sure.

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Jim (Mi)

11-07-2001 09:37:14

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to Dick L, 11-07-2001 05:30:47

Dick, Perhaps you can help me, you definately seem to be very knowledgable about B's & C's. My neighbor loves my WD, and said a guy has a Allis similiar to mine only smaller for sale. I am assuming this is a B or C. He said he wanted to have me go take a look at it with him. He just wants a little tractor for odds and ends. Assuming this materializes and he goes, what are things I should look out for with these models. Thanks.

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Dick L

11-07-2001 11:38:32

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to Jim (Mi), 11-07-2001 09:37:14

I am not an expert by any means but have 11 of the little Allis's at this moment. Who knows what tomorrow will bring. I would not know what he would be talking about without a picture. They made what is called an RC which was, in a simple discreption, a WC with a C engine.

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Jim (Mi)

11-07-2001 11:48:04

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to Dick L, 11-07-2001 11:38:32

Can't give the price since I do not know. But I am a tractor owner since 2000 only. So I am a complete novice. I know D series tractors have trans pop out of third and fourth. Was just looking for common problems with B and C's. They have tons of these two in the area I live, and by his description it sounded like one of the two. If I go with him, I want to be as much help as possible. I am a good car mechanic, and can spot obvious problems, but I am only a year old familiar with a WD and Farmall 200.

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Butch (OH)

11-07-2001 07:03:43

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to Dick L, 11-07-2001 05:30:47

Dick, When I said "factory" in my earlier post I meant not "farmer engineered", sorry for the confusion. The snap coupler set up was a field installed option on the late Bs (according to Norn Swinford) The snapcoupler and lift arms on Feglar's B are different than a CA, that much I do know as there was a CA sitting close by. The coupler was bolted to what looked like a standard B drawbar turned around and attached where the plow frame would normally attach on a B. The lift arms were on a rockshaft mounted in the same place a cultivator rockshaft would mount. It did not have the wide model C axle housings. I didn't pay any attention to the other things like mounting holes on the torque tube. As an aside, the Model C type rear wheels seem to often appear on Bs with adjustable (slideing tube type) front ends,I know of 4 or 5 "documented" original Bs with adjustable wide fronts, C wheels and rims, and B linal drive width. It is my (lowley) opinion that most Bs with the sliding tube type adjustable wide front came from the factory with the model C type rear wheels. When you think about it, it makes sense. They would not be able to match the tread widths of the front end without using model C dish wheels on the rear. Feglars B is supposed to be a documented original. Charles passed away last summer so his model Bs originality is left to others to debate. Again I aint claiming to be a B "spert" just reporting what I saw, have been told, and have read.

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Brian G. NY

11-07-2001 18:10:33

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to Butch (OH), 11-07-2001 07:03:43

Now I didn't know (but I thought I did) a lot about the "B"s until I got on this site and saw all of the discussion. My Dad bought a B new in 1941 and up to now, that's the only B I was familiar with. I copied the photos of a newer "B" factory brochure that was on E-bay a while ago. I did so because of all the differences I saw on the new "B" and the one we had. For example: Above the hood muffler, pull rod starter, available adjustable WFE with "C" type wheels, extra holes in the torque tube, different battery box and sheetmetal under gas tank, and (it's not too clear in picture) what looks like the bullet style taillight on the LH fender. So, contrary to what I had previously believed, these items on a "B" do not necessarily mean that it has been made up with parts from a "C" or "CA". I have A-C manuals for all three tractors, but the only "new" thing the B & C manuals show is the pull starter rod up next to the throttle and some pictures show the foot starter rod instead. I would say the tractor that WAS on E-bay was probably all original. MHO Brian

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Dick L

11-07-2001 09:29:46

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Seen this Allis B on ebay - Buffalo, NY area in reply to Butch (OH), 11-07-2001 07:03:43

I have Norms Book and quit looking things up in it because I found to many things that was not the same as Allis Chalmers own manuals which I have many of.

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