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Allis C Crankshaft Clearances

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Burl (ME)

10-03-2001 15:19:09




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Took my winter project apart, and the crank journals (both main and rod)mic out .009 over. Anyone have an opinion if I can get away with just putting .005 oversize bearings in it, or should I just bite the bullet and have the crank reground .030 over. This tractor will be used for parades and occassional stock class pulling only. Thanks for any inputs.




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Gordon in IN

10-04-2001 21:16:12




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 Re: Allis C Crankshaft Clearances in reply to Burl (ME), 10-03-2001 15:19:09  
If your journals are "round" and "not tapered" and if you "must" use the .005 inch "UNDERSIZE" inserts, you "could" shim the inserts with a .002 inch shim all the way around the inserts.(between the insert and the bore of the block and the bore of the rod bearings.) Thus: .005 inch plus two .002 inch shims (one on each side) gives .009 inch undersize bearing. If you even think about this, and your engine is a CA or has been changed to have oil pressure on the rod bearings, be sure that the main bearing insert shims have an "oil hole" in the proper place and that the shim is installed to align the oil hole in each main bearing, and the shim and the oil hole in the block. Also you may have to file a few (two to four) thousands of an inch off of the end of one of the inserts in each "pair" of inserts. Further, remember that the AC "C" engines have "shims" under each end of the main bearing and rod bearing end caps (.010 inch "shim pack" in an original "new" or "rebuilt" engine), be sure to use them or you will really have an OVAL (or crushed bearing) bearing insert. You can adjust the .010 "shim pack" under the bearing caps .001 or .002 inch to get the final bearing clearance that you want. (I recommend minimum clearances.) You will have a LOT of shims in the final assembly process. It is a pain, but it "can" be done, and it is usually not recommended. If you decide to get the crankshaft reground, you might consider a CA crankshaft with oil pressure lubrication to the rod bearings. If you do use a "CA" crankshaft use a "CA" camshaft or plug the "holes" in the "C" camshaft that provide the "spray" oil lubrication to the rod bearings in the original "C" engine design. I have been told that a "counter balanced" crankshaft from a later model AC tractor engine (early series D15 I think) can be used in a "C" or "CA" engine. This, if possible, would allow "much higher RPM" and increased power. The same statement about camshafts apply. I recommend a new or rebuilt oil pump, (high capacity if available). If you do not already have one, get an "I&T" Shop Service Service Manual from one of the "Tractor" stores. I recommend new cam bearings with minimum clearances. Be sure to clean the camshaft (inside) it IS the oil gallery on the C and CA engines. Also you might want to open up the two oil holes in the center of the camshaft to allow more oil "into" the camshaft. Originally the camshaft has two oil holes for oil to go into it and four holes for oil to flow out of it (all six holes are originally the same size). Good luck in whatever you decide to do, Gordon in IN

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Dick L

10-03-2001 20:06:13




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 Re: Allis C Crankshaft Clearances in reply to Burl (ME), 10-03-2001 15:19:09  
Burl, Mic the main journals on both sides of center and then 90 deg. from each reading. wright the readings down. Mic the rod journals at the point where the piston would be at top dead center both sides of center and then 90 deg. from those readings. wright those readings down as well. Then post that information.



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Wilson

10-12-2003 15:47:05




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 Re: Re: Allis C Crankshaft Clearances in reply to Dick L, 10-03-2001 20:06:13  
Model C: I have a crank with some light pitting on three of the rod journals. The number one rod journal has a mirror finish. If the journals are not worn should I just polish them and skip the regrind?



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Burl (ME)

10-06-2001 14:56:32




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 Re: Re: Allis C Crankshaft Clearances in reply to Dick L, 10-03-2001 20:06:13  
Dick, I retook all of the measurements, and they're universally .009 undersize. No taper side to side or oval readings.This coincides with what I was told when I picked up the tractor. It had supposedly been overhauled and shortly after that it froze up, and has been setting for 10 yrs. Possiby the crank wasn't ground to properly match the bearings? After talking to a machinist and pricing bearings, I've decided to spend the relatively small amount and get a rebuilt crank and matching bearings. Spend it now, or spend it later, I guess. Thanks for all the responses.

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Dick L

10-07-2001 08:03:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Allis C Crankshaft Clearances in reply to Burl (ME), 10-06-2001 14:56:32  
I would guess that it was a -.010 gind and you have a .001 difference in mic's. A good grind shop would not grind to .009 and if it is .009 in all spots, it was ground to that diameter. If the bearings seised on the crank shortly after running it most likely was improperly shimmed. If you put in a new crank with matched bearings you will still have to shim and file the bearing inserts correctly or you will have the same results.

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ssteve

10-03-2001 18:23:20




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 Re: Allis C Crankshaft Clearances in reply to Burl (ME), 10-03-2001 15:19:09  
Burl, what was your oil pressure like when you came down? You may need a oil pump overhaul also. If the journal is round and not tapered end to end, i see your point. You could put bearings in a few thousands tighter and it would be oval shape. more clearance at the joint than up and down. Probably be o.k. for the parades, but dont think i would pull heavy loads. Picture the oil film around the bearing journal. It tapers from max to zero as the engine rotates. If you put oval bearings in it you have screwed up the oil wedge formed by the rotating crank. Not a good long term plan, unless you are just parading around.

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