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AC B Magneto troubles

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p

05-14-2001 15:23:26




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Here is the full story..


HAve AC B that my cousin bought. I have helped out a little to get it running. It ran rough when he bought it. It is a 38 and only has hand crank, no electrics. He could not get it started when he got it home. He rebuilt the carb. Still no start, no pull starting either. It had suppression wires on it. I put copper wires, new plugs, new points and condensor, and cleaned rotor and cap. It started when pulled. I left. Never started again.
checked timing. Way off. The impulse was off and the rotor location was off. I reset the impulse by turning the govenor until it clicked when TDC was achieved. Reset the rotor so that when I clicked on TDC on #1 it then was pointing as #1. IT fired right up. (by the way the timing marks on the geard were way off now, someone had been in the motor) I started several times and ran smoothly. I noticed the carb was out of adjustment but then asked here and now know how to adjust it. He dismantled tractor to istall foot brakes, new torque tube for starter istallation, and PTO and hydraulics. Now it is reassembled and the magneto is acting up again. The impulse(the clicking) only works sometimes. They were going to reset the timing from TDC to Fire so that it had the proper advance. Sometimes it clicks, sometimes not. THey took off the mag, turned it by hand, everything fine. put it back on and it works ten times or so, then stops, then it starts clicking again. any ideas????? ??

Thanks.

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p

05-14-2001 15:24:45




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 Re: AC B Magneto troubles in reply to p, 05-14-2001 15:23:26  
also, How easy is it to remove the impulse parts of the mag, anyone(dick L. ???) have a diagram of the type FMJ (I think) Fairbanks-Morse magneto? Thanks so much!



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Dick L

05-14-2001 18:55:13




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 Re: Re: AC B Magneto troubles in reply to p, 05-14-2001 15:24:45  
Two things come to mind. One or both of the pawls could be rounded off and will not catch on the pawl stop pin. If it is not rounded off to bad it can be filed to where it sharp enough to catch. The other thing would be the pin that the pawl pivits on could be gumed up to where the light will not push it out to connect with the pawl stop pin. One other thing that it could be is that the spring came unhooked.

I don't have a clear drawing of the pawls.

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Dick L

05-14-2001 21:16:23




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 Re: Re: Re: AC B Magneto troubles in reply to Dick L, 05-14-2001 18:55:13  
to take the impulse off you have a nut retainer that you will have to bend away from the 3/4" center nut. I use small screwdriver and a hammer. The 3/4" nut is a right handed thread. Turn it out and the drive will pry off. Be a little carefull as the spring will have tension on it and if you dont pay attention it will leave a little bloody notch in a finger. It will be far from your heart but will still sting.

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p

05-14-2001 21:31:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: AC B Magneto troubles in reply to Dick L, 05-14-2001 21:16:23  
Found the answer.

Thanks for your reply though.

I stopped in tonight and they were finishing up the change over. They noticed that if they had the throttle all the way back towards no idle, the clicking would stop. If they moved it to about half throttle it would start clicking again. I told them that was bad, they looked at me funny. They have borrowed an IT manual and I looked for spacers or something. They also told me they noticed that the govenor(or the thingy in the hole that moved the magneto - as they put it - would move in and out if you pushed it.)

What I found was that the bushing that the shaft rode in had walked out and was barely hanging on. I was able to push it in about 1/8th. of an inch with my finger. The govenor was backing away from the magneto and throwing it 180 degrees out of time. It was luck of the draw when it tried to start. Sometimes it was in time, other times it was 180 out. This would explain why they timed the tractor, it started and ran smooth. They turned it off and when they tried to restart, it backfired.

They are going to take the bushing out tomorrow, apply some green loctite and reinstall it completely. That should solve their problems. I have never heard of this happening but this is also my first AC to work on. I am a farmall A and Cub man.

Thanks for everything..

p

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MTUCKER

05-22-2001 07:41:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC B Magneto troubles in reply to p, 05-14-2001 21:31:44  
ive got the same prob right now and found the end bearing/bushingcap for $17.38 in hillsboro tx at254-582-8473 cheap enough im buyin2 ...just in case i need 1 later...hope the # helps



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Mike (Oh)

05-15-2001 14:02:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC B Magneto troubles in reply to p, 05-14-2001 21:31:44  
Funny, just put a post on the ac.com board yesterday about this. Replaced my mag and could only get the timeing mark to the top of the inspection hole. Found out that the ears of the mag barely engaged unless throttle was at full. Could move the mag/governor gear in and out about 1/4 inch by hand. Have not taken off governor yet to try to fix it but according to my book (which does not give alot of information) it says that the shaft is just pressed into the mag/governor gear so I think all I have to do is press the shaft back out a bit to adjust it. I also think it may have jumped a tooth thats causeing the timeing to be a little off.

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p

05-15-2001 14:50:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC B Magneto troubles in reply to Mike (Oh), 05-15-2001 14:02:58  
Check the cover that is over the magneto. On the side closest to the radiator will be a brass bushing. The cover is a dome shape and this is in the center of the dome. The bushing should be flush with the cover. On this one it was protruding about 1/2 and inch. (I have a better way of explaining it but it is totally innappropriate for this board. It is an anotomical reference.)



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Mike (Oh)

05-16-2001 20:24:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC B Magneto troubles in reply to p, 05-15-2001 14:50:22  
p, thanks for the info. Took it apart today and see now what you are saying. Could not figure out how that bushing would stop the shaft from moveing in and out but i see now that it (the bushing) has a closed end to it. The bushing is tight and will not come out so I am going to try to press the shaft farther into the gear rather than mess with trying to get the bushing pulled out. Dont know what caused it. I never forced the mag on it. It always ran good - and still does. I guess it could have been like that for years and never caught. Again thanks and if i cant get the shaft to move i'll do what you did - once i figure out how to get the bushing out.

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p

05-17-2001 12:44:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC B Magneto troubles in reply to Mike (Oh), 05-16-2001 20:24:55  
I talked to the guys doing the work on the tractor, I come over and give them direction and they do it, They are learning. They said there is a pin that is supposed to hold the bushing in place. The pin came loose and that is why the bushing came out. you may have to find this "pin" and pull it out before the bushing will move. good luck.



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Mike (Oh)

05-18-2001 21:11:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC B Magneto troubles in reply to p, 05-17-2001 12:44:14  
Just got back in the house, B running fine now. Took about 3 hrs to get mag gear in correct position (could not find any kind of mark on cam gear and did not bother to mark it before I took it out - like I said in the previous post sometimes a little slow). Timing mark does not jump around like it always did and is in the center of the inspection hole. All this just from replacing a mag. Hope yours turns out well also.
Thanks again and good luck.

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Mike (Oh)

05-18-2001 07:24:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AC B Magneto troubles in reply to p, 05-17-2001 12:44:14  
Ok, sometimes I cant see the forrest for the trees. After I cleaned all the gunk from the governor housing I see brass showing thru some of the paint. The housing is not solid as I had figured it to be but has a hole all the way thru it. Now I realize what you meant in your earlier post to a certain body part - again at times I can be a little slow. With a little help from a lead mallet I got the bushing flush with the back of the housing. I did not see any pin to speak of but it did look like there might have been 2 "ears" on the outside of the housing to keep the bushing from working its way out. Must have been like that for years because the end of the busing that was protruding was painted orange and did not look like it had moved - paint on the bushing all the way to the housing. Anyway turned out to be a simple fix, just have to find the timing mark on the camshaft gear that aligns to the mag gear. Thought I had it but wants to tear my arm off when I tried to start it last night. Hopefully I'll get it running tonight.
Thanks again - was good explanation on the fix, I just had to listen and not pay attention to the service manual. It kept on saying to adjust it by pressing the shaft in or out of the mag gear. Never mentioned or showed how the bushing was supposed to fit. I sure did not want to beat on the mag gear to try to move the shaft.

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