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Leaky Wet Sleeves

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Don Holden

04-08-2001 20:19:35




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I just changed the "o"rings in my D17, and I just wondered if there is a way to verify the sleeves don't leak before I complete the reassembly of the head and pan. The inserts were real tough to pull and the "o"rings were really shot. The new ones were a real tight fit and were not easy to seat to a full nest. Just curious if someone has a method that was used in their past tear downs.
Sure would be irratating to go thru all of this and still have a problem. The book says a sharp pressure with both hands will seat the insert. In my tractor you would have to have hands like Hercules! I had to use a raw hide mallet and a hammer to tap them down.

Thanks Again,

Don Holden

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Jeremy

04-09-2001 10:16:24




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 Re: Leaky Wet Sleeves in reply to Don Holden, 04-08-2001 20:19:35  
I just did the same job. The trick was in the clean-up. Years of build up had accumulated and was almost as hard as the iron. I had to use a large BB type hone to clean the bore. The sleeves should be able to turn easily with your hands without the seals. And You should be able to press the sleeves in by hand with the seals. Make sure there is a radius on the top edge where th O-rings start into the sealing area.

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Jeremy

04-12-2001 10:51:50




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 Re: Re: Leaky Wet Sleeves in reply to Jeremy, 04-09-2001 10:16:24  
A BB Hone is like a bottle brush with BB's of abrasive material on the ends of the brushes. I use them to clean 2 cycle engine cylinders because they are flexible and will conform to what ever you are cleaning. As far as the sleeves turning by hand. They should spin fairly easily in their bores. I just use Engine oil to lubricate. I know the o-rings will tolerate that. However, if you installed silicon 0-rings they will swell after exposed to most oil. In my tisco kit the instructions said the silicone rings would not be black. But, in other kits they may be. My point is if your current rings have swollen from your first installation you may need to replace them if pulled out. You may not be able to get them back in.

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Don Holden

04-12-2001 16:19:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Leaky Wet Sleeves in reply to Jeremy, 04-12-2001 10:51:50  
Jeremy is this hone something I could get at NAPA or a Farm and Fleet? Tomorrow is Good Friday, but Sat I could make a trip to maybe locate and purchase. I am a snowmobiler and do most of my own repairs, so I am interested in the fact that you used them to work on 2 cycle engines, That means it will have additional value and help me with the other stuff I like to do. How much can I expect to pay for the tool? This repair has been a big job for me because of my inexperience. I have learned a lot!

Thanks Again
Don Holden

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jeremy

04-17-2001 09:42:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Leaky Wet Sleeves in reply to Don Holden, 04-12-2001 16:19:55  
Sorry it took so long getting back. I bought mine from grainger or MSC. I think about $15.00. You order them in the size range you need so you may not get one to fit your 2 cycle and tractor. You may need to buy one for each. Napa or other auto stores can probally get them. Most places with a machine shop will know what you are wanting.



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Don Holden

04-17-2001 17:49:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Leaky Wet Sleeves in reply to jeremy, 04-17-2001 09:42:50  
Jeremy, I am just happy to hear back from you. I checked at Napa and they wanted 128 bucks for the size to fit the 17 (ouch)! Well, I opted to use my buddies and unfortunatly it was a little small in diameter. I then carefully used a regular hone in the top and bottom. You were right on about everything. I have pulled the sleeves again and really cleaned everything up and now the inserts fit good and turn real nice without the "o"rings and I am in the process of getting new ones locally and should have the old sweetheart going back together in a day or so. Live and learn! I am just grateful that I did not put the thing back together with that problem lurking again. This mechanical stuff is fun, but I am getting sick of having my baby down so long. I should be plowing the sod and watching the crops bloom.
Thanks again,

Don Holden

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Don Holden

04-11-2001 10:03:09




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 Re: Re: Leaky Wet Sleeves in reply to Jeremy, 04-09-2001 10:16:24  
Jeremy,
In your response to my post you mentioned a BB type hone. I am not familiar with the term. Can you clarify what it is, and possibly where I can get one for my job. Also, when you say turn by hand, I am assuming that means 360 degrees, not back and forth. I still have not pulled them back out because my source for the top 1/2 of the puller is out of town. I have filled the block with antifreeze to see if they will leak in the current unpressurized state.

Thanks Don

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Dick L

04-09-2001 04:45:07




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 Re: Leaky Wet Sleeves in reply to Don Holden, 04-08-2001 20:19:35  
might be a problem. Did you have the sleeves so that you could slip them in and rotate them with your hands before you put on the orings? If you did not have the area clean enough it is easy for an O ring to catch and pinch some rubber off the O ring.



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Don Holden

04-09-2001 12:08:17




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 Re: Re: Leaky Wet Sleeves in reply to Dick L, 04-09-2001 04:45:07  
Thanks for the replys guys. I had cleaned every thing up real good and I noticed that there were burrs at the top of the bottom sealing surfaces that were never removed by the previous installers. I removed them with my air tools but did not try spinning the inserts by hand. This was my first attempt and I assumed that if the inserts fit before they should fit again. Oh well, live and learn. Maybe they will be fine and if not, I know what to do next time. I have got to get this thing up and running. I know it will be better than before and if I have to do it again it will be a piece of cake. Appreciate the responses.

Don Holden

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Don Holden

04-09-2001 14:50:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Leaky Wet Sleeves in reply to Don Holden, 04-09-2001 12:08:17  
Hold everything!! Common sense has overtaken me since my last post on the forum and I am now in the process of pulling out the pistons and the wet sleeves again just to be sure everything is good. I will be sure the inserts fit and turn without the "o"rings, and I will be sure that I can push them down by hand with the "o" rings installed. I had a second thought about how frustrating it would be to face the same problem after all of this work. It's just not worth it, and I thank you AC lovers for your responses on my concern.

Thanks Again!

Second Thought Don

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gr

04-11-2001 18:07:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Leaky Wet Sleeves in reply to Don Holden, 04-09-2001 14:50:03  
Lubing o-rings seems to be a just solution, but be cautious on liner seals. Different o-ring materials respond differently to different lubricants. ie: JD insists you use their very own liner seal lubricant. Cost is low so its use is justifiable. Many old Caterpillar engines required use of either vegetable oil or engine oil, depending on model. Other manufacturers recommend petroleum jelly. If you use the wrong lube, it may swell the rings excessively, or worse yet, cause deterioration long after installation, causing a belly full of glycol. Most overhaul kits usually have a recommended lube for liner o-rings. If not, check with reputable rebuilder or original manufacturers, or best yet, call o/h kit manufacturer on customer assistance tech line and ask them. Good luck.

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Tom

04-11-2001 18:37:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Leaky Wet Sleeves in reply to gr, 04-11-2001 18:07:41  
I am sure all manufactures would have you use their own lube, and pay them for it. However, liner seals are exposed to engine oil from the crankcase so they will stand up to petroleum lubes. I haven't come across anything that would stand up to oil but not grease so I would expect they would also stand up to greases.



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Tom

04-10-2001 18:13:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Leaky Wet Sleeves in reply to Don Holden, 04-09-2001 14:50:03  
Use some grease or O ring lube on them to help them slide in.



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