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Electrical/cranking problem with WD

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Tim Venable

03-27-2001 17:18:33




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Thanks to Steve and Brad for their advice yesterday for my WD. (I'm the guy with water in his engine.) I went down the list, cranking the engine over to get the water out and so on. But now I seem to have some kind of electrical problem as well. (Believe it or not, this tractor cranked and ran fine back in the fall, when I last used it. It runs good and has good power.)

The starter (this tractor has a pull-ring type of mechanism to start it, connecting by a rod to a push-button that fits against the starter) turned the engine over reasonably well when I had the plugs out, getting the water out of the engine. There was water in only one cylinder - none came out of the other three.

But when I put the plugs back in, the starter will only turn the engine a few slow turns, then it gets in a bind, and won't turn over any more. The positive cable from the battery and the on/off switch wire, which both go on top of the bolt/terminal on the push-button switch, start to get hot. Something in the electrical scheme isn't right.

And putting the plugs back in after I did the other work made the starter turn noticeably slower. It's like the starter can turn the engine over if there's no load on it, but it can't do much if there is. It's like the electricity getting to the starter isn't good enough.

The ground wire that goes from the negative battery to the tractor frame is clean and tight. The positive battery cable isn't the best, but it should be OK. I took the starter off and had an auto electrical shop test it, and it's fine. No problem there. I haven't followed the on/off switch wire back to the switch, because it's inside a case that I haven't opened up.

But why won't the starter motor turn over any faster? The battery is OK, and I even used jumper cables and a car to make sure enough power was coming in. What could be creating this heat where the wires come together at the push-button on the starter motor? I was standing to the side doing this cranking - I didn't have the clutch pushed in.

Any ideas would be appreciated. I need to cut my grass - and plow my garden - soon! Thanks.

Tim

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Dale E.

03-29-2001 14:37:18




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 Re: electrical/cranking problem with WD in reply to Tim Venable, 03-27-2001 17:18:33  
Tim, Had similar problem recently. Bad storm blew tree on pole shed and bent tin perfectly to funnel heavy rain right into exhaust pipe on 6-volt AC/CA. Glad to see tractor not damaged, so I thought and tried to crank. Got a nasty shower from water coming from exhaust. Got about 2.5 gal. of water/oil mixture out when I drained the oil. Struggled getting it started after replacing the oil.(Used Rotella, think it has detergents or surfactants or something to make moisture combine with oil.) Ran it hard for about an hour. Drained that oil and let it drip overnight.Put in new oil and filter all seems well at present. About 6-volt cranking: Do replace both cables with 2/0 size. Do clean starter housing and starter to clean metal. Do recharge battery. Do check under push button on starter an clean with good contact cleaner. Do be patient! P.S. Mine cranks slowly but fires off quickly. My experiences! Good Luck.

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Dave Kolby

03-28-2001 16:21:15




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 Re: electrical/cranking problem with WD in reply to Tim Venable, 03-27-2001 17:18:33  
I think a major issue is being overlooked here. That is that many times the battery cables have been replaced with cables meant for 12 volts. These just are not large enough gage to carry the amps needed for the 6 volt system. Go to a battery shop (not Wallmart etc.) Tell them you need 6 volt cables, they will be a lot heaver (thicker) than the 12V ones. Then, ALL connections must be clean and tight, all the time! This is probably the major reason all systems went to 12Volts. The starter does not care if you use positive or negative ground, however, the charging system does care. WD's are positive ground as original. Our WD's would always start in one or two turns and are easy to hand start if timed right and tuned up.

Dave

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jim

03-28-2001 13:36:34




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 Re: electrical/cranking problem with WD in reply to Tim Venable, 03-27-2001 17:18:33  
two things might be your problem one the water in the cylinder may have froze and damaged it.
second the battery may be bad unhook it and try jumping it again good luck



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Dave in Mo

03-28-2001 04:45:06




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 Re: electrical/cranking problem with WD in reply to Tim Venable, 03-27-2001 17:18:33  
Tim, I just finished up a new wiring harness last night for my '52 WD. First of all, your tractor should be 6 volt positive ground. That means the lead to the starter motor from the battery should be the black negative wire. The other smaller wire hooked up to the starter switch is a feeder for the rest of the electrical system. Take the starter out again and with fine sandpaper, clean the inside of the mounting hole and the o.d. of the starter motor itself. I bought new battery cable and grounding strap too for about $10 at Autozone. You HAVE to have clean connections. Mine wouldn't even turn over with 12 volts at first until I did these things. Now it just cranks with 6 volts. As far as the wires getting hot, the starter is for short intermittant service, not for continuus cranking for cleaning out the engine. The starter contact switch is basically 2 blocks of copper pulled together by the pullrod up at the steering wheel. This tractor should start easily with 1 or 2 revolutions. That's why you can theoretically start it with the handcrank!

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George Creamean

03-28-2001 09:27:33




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 Re: Re: electrical/cranking problem with WD in reply to Dave in Mo, 03-28-2001 04:45:06  
It's interesting to read the fixes for slow or no starter actuation. This morning I had the same problem with my D-14. I read that the WD has a positive ground. Does anyone know if the D-14 has a positive ground as well? My connections are clean and tight, but I haven't tried cleaning between the starter and the housing yet. This will be my next action.



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B

03-27-2001 19:40:08




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 Re: electrical/cranking problem with WD in reply to Tim Venable, 03-27-2001 17:18:33  
You may have flooded the tractor real bad.



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teve

03-27-2001 18:21:19




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 Re: electrical/cranking problem with WD in reply to Tim Venable, 03-27-2001 17:18:33  
I would start over again, take plugs out and try cranking again. Do you have water again inside?? Check the crankcase. DO you have water in the oil? IF so then maybe the block froze or head gasket failed over the winter. Is there antifreeze in the radiator or just water.
---If no water present, make sure the engine spins good with no sparkplugs. Charge battery and check all connections, you are on the right track. If you tried to jump start and did not gain, then the battery is probably not the problem. Since the cable gets hot, you have a bad connection, or engine has water (stuck) inside and overloading starter motor.

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m.pederson

03-28-2001 15:59:47




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 Re: Re: electrical/cranking problem with WD in reply to teve, 03-27-2001 18:21:19  

the fact that you have a positive cable getting hot is an indication of high resistance in the cable if the cable shows any signs of green corosion on either end of the cable replace it with new at least 1/0 size. weather or not the system is positive or negative ground is no concern to the starter, it will work either way



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Tim Venable

03-28-2001 03:58:14




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 Re: Re: electrical/cranking problem with WD in reply to teve, 03-27-2001 18:21:19  
Thanks. Concerning the possibility of freezing, I'm sure that's not it. I had the antifreeze protection down to below zero this winter, and it didn't get that cold. There is no sign of antifreeze in the oil, so I don't think there is a cracked block or head gasket. And although there was PLENTY of water in the engine before I changed the oil - at least a gallon - there does not appear to be much there now, if any. I will take another look - drain a bit out of the pan to see if any more water comes out first.

I will run through those steps again. Cranking it sent dirty water flying out the No. 2 cylinder, but none came out of the other three. When basically nothing more was coming out, I stopped and put things back together.

It sounds like your idea of more water in the engine might be it. But how could there be so much water still in there somewhere as to put the engine in a bind, when nothing major continues to come out of the plug holes? Rust-up shouldn't be a factor, because it's only been about 4 months or so since this thing was running fine.

Should I be able to get all the water out by draining the oil pan and pulling the plugs? Is there any other step to take?

Thanks. By the way, I'm getting my brother to help me build a shed for this tractor and my other one (Case VAC) so I don't get in this situation again.

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steve

03-28-2001 19:50:12




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 Re: Re: Re: electrical/cranking problem with WD in reply to Tim Venable, 03-28-2001 03:58:14  
you are on the right track and answering most of your own questions. you need to eliminate the possibliity that it is still water. pulling the plugs and checking oil pan will tell this. after you have eliminated this you can concnetrate on the electrical. bad connections are a good possibility. starter must be solidly bolted in the flywheel housing and make good electrical contact. the terminals on the starter and battery must be clean and tight. just start at the beginning and narrow it down one by one. write back when you get it, we are curious now!!

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