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Timing revisited: '41 B

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clickent

02-21-2001 16:10:33

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Recently I asked how to properly time a 1941 "B" and got a couple of different answers. The most common answer matched what the I&T manual says however one fella gave something different. Intresting thing is I think he is right. Here's the story.

About a year ago I tore my "B" almost all the way down to restore it. It was running great but leaked from almost everyplace a tractor can. Before I got into the engine I marked the magneto timing. I took the impluse coupler off but didn't mess with the timing gears. Now as I'm putting it back together I ask about timing because I want to get it right. Most folks and the book start their explanation with reading FIRE in the left hole on the bell housing. One fella says to time it with the CENTER mark on the flywheel. When I put everything back by the mark I scribed the magneto clicks at the center mark, not even close at the fire mark. I realize what those marks represent but am confused about the differance in opinions here. So what does everybody think? What is the right way and WHY???

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steve

02-21-2001 19:02:13

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Re: timing revisited: '41 B in reply to clickent, 02-21-2001 16:10:33

my 2 cents says the center, or top dead center mark is used to install the camshaft and set the valve timing. Valves and cam are relative to top dead center, so many degrees befor or after. The distributor or mag on the other hand is "timed" prior to the piston reaching the top of its stroke. This position is called the fire mark. The distributor is timed to this mark. Setting the distributor to fire at top dead center will probably run, but will get hot and not reach proper high speed. If the distributor has a mechanical or vacuum advance, you still time it to the "fire" mark and as the engine revs up it will "fire" even sooner than the mark.

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Dick L

02-21-2001 20:29:39

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Re: Re: Re: timing revisited: '41 B in reply to clickent, 02-21-2001 19:19:58

I set every older engine at top dead center when installing a mag before starting it up. You can set the timing with a light, vacuum gage, or by ear, after it is running. If using a timing light use the fire line. It is very difficult to set exactly to any setting with the engine not running. Which ever line you set it to it will most likly start, but put a timing light and see how close you are to where you thought you were.
Just finnished the one on this page and have not started it yet. The one on the link was started up in December.

B Allis

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Dale E.

02-22-2001 13:51:20

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Re: Re: Re: Re: timing revisited: '41 B in reply to Dick L, 02-21-2001 20:29:39

Dick, Do ya have a picture of the other side of this tractor? Do I see a step there? Also wanted to thank you again for the sheet metal idea on the tool box. It turned out great!!! I enjoyed it too because I used a tool (jig-saw) my Grandfather left me. That made it real special. Whole sheet of 18ga. was only $32.50. Now have enough for a couple of tractors. Good excuse to buy 3 or 4 more. Somethings just work out good!

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Dick L

02-23-2001 07:36:49

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: timing revisited: '41 B in reply to Dale E., 02-22-2001 13:51:20

Glad I could help.
yes I do have a picture of the other side and will put it on a link. I bought a step from Roger VanCamp and put it on to try. I am tall with long legs and not sure I like it. I think a shorter person would find it helpfull.

other side

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clickent

02-22-2001 05:03:33

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Re: Re: Re: Re: timing revisited: '41 B in reply to Dick L, 02-21-2001 20:29:39

Very nice photos. Thanks for sharing. What year is the tractor in the link? That is some exhaust on the engine on the stand! Here is mine so far.

1941 B, half done

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Dick L

02-22-2001 09:26:54

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: timing revisited: '41 B in reply to clickent, 02-22-2001 05:03:33

Looks like your getting there. They go back to gather slow one piece at a time, only it can take weeks to get one part ready to put back on.

The close up tractor in the link is a 1940. The one on the trailer is a 1944. The one that will be in this link, what is there to see is a 1949.

1949

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clickent

02-22-2001 10:19:05

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: timing revisited: '41 B in reply to Dick L, 02-22-2001 09:26:54

Gee looks like your missing the tail light. Rest of it is pretty cosmetic :) I guess you "B" the man.

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Dick L

02-22-2001 12:01:51

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: timing revisited: '41 B in reply to clickent, 02-22-2001 10:19:05

Here is a 1948 with a 1939 at the link

1939 B

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Dick L -- A different looking B

02-22-2001 12:28:55

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: timing revisited: '41 B in reply to Dick L, 02-22-2001 12:01:51

I just bought this factory narrow front B, Don,t have it home yet. The dealer that I bought it from said he only knew of four special ordered narrow front B's. I have no idea why any one would order it or what they would use it for.
I am excited about restoring it though.

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Dick L -- A different looking B

02-22-2001 12:27:20

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: timing revisited: '41 B in reply to Dick L, 02-22-2001 12:01:51

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D13

02-22-2001 18:28:04

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: timing revisited: '41 B in reply to Dick L -- A different looking B , 02-22-2001 12:27:20

I thought for a minute you and I had been swapping parts. I swapped a guy some parts from a B to put a wide front on his C (front end and steering box), and here is a B with what looks like a C front end. Does the steering arm run through the front sheet metal like a C? Is it a B steering box or a C? It would be interesting to see a front view to compare with a C and a B. Very curious! What's the serial number?

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Dick L

02-23-2001 06:53:57

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: timing revisited: '41 B in reply to D13, 02-22-2001 18:28:04

It has a C stearing box on it now, it does not have the same amount of fadeing as the rest of the tractor and has the ring on it where it had the U bolt to a C bracket. I quized about this and was assured that it was a factory original and someone had changed the stearing gear.

A lot of paint and crud over the serial number and I will clean it up as soon as I get it home.
I will take it apart piece by piece and look at every thing as if it were a counterfit. I don't want a fake. I am a serious collector of antiques and any fake that I have gets displayed as such.

If I find that it is a fake I will post pictures of what I found that proves that it is so that others will have an easyer time spoting such things.

The guy I bought it from truly believes that it is a factory narrow.

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Dick L

02-22-2001 13:33:42

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: timing revisited: '41 B in reply to clickent, 02-22-2001 12:45:43

The 1948 and 1949 of mine have the splined axles. I have not seen a B with the flanged axle. However I have had the axles out of both the B's and C's, but not at the same. They look like they would be intechangable. When I pull the axles out of the 1949 B I will compair it with the axle from the 1945 C that I have out.

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Dick L

02-23-2001 07:16:26

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: timing revisited: '41 B in reply to clickent, 02-22-2001 20:33:05

This comes back to the same thing as the narrow front. Why would the factory do such a thing as a B is a one row tractor, the narrow front B would be driving on the row if it was ever used to cultivate. The dished cast hub was a design to widen the rear of the C to straddle two rows for cultivating and without the C's wider final drive turning the hubs around on the B would not be wide enough to do this. Neather option makes any sense but special ordered any thing only has to make sense to the person ordering it. On the other hand these tractors have been around a long time and people alter them for reasons that they only know.
I bought a pile of parts from a guy that took several junk C's and B's and with the good parts from them put togather making for a very interesting lookin tractor. You would have to call it a CB.

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Ron

02-23-2001 19:46:28

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: timing revisited: '41 B in reply to Dick L, 02-23-2001 07:16:26

Dick I would like to know the S.N.of N.F.B I have a 41 the same way the S.N. is B56169SO-2

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