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Allis match special plows did such ever exist?

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Jamie Packham

12-16-1999 10:44:22




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Some of you may have seen me post this question other places but I still have no answer so here goes. Did a "match special" ever exist in allis snap coupler hitch? One response I did get tried to tell me that dad's D-15 never came with such a hitch. I hooked up to it enough times to know. We used to have a 3 furrow for this tractor(later reduced to a two furrow as hours went up and power went down)but I cannot remember the model # of the plow . It had independant framing which allowed any numberof furrows to be attached and a very large (10.00 x 20.00) groundwheel on a vertical slider for depth adjustment. Only problem with it was the short length-high twist moldboards ala Massey and John Deere that did not lay a furrow worth a damn. I have been match plowing for 18 years now with a Kvernelands plow behind a Massey tractor and while the results are very good I think that a properly equipped Allis combo would surprise a lot of people. The controllability of Allis style three point hitch lends itself to accurate plowing from an engineering standpoint. Also since I do not intend to compete in Antique original classes modifications to achieve what i want or leads on anybody who has tried it would be appreciated. Thanks P.S. The d-15 is still working almost every day after 6500 hours.A little tranny work last year and an egine rebuild maybe next year and should be good for another 6500

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tim[in]

12-17-1999 23:34:23




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 Re: Allis match special plows did such ever exist? in reply to Jamie Packham, 12-16-1999 10:44:22  
match plowing ? must be a canadian post !lol or do we have match in the us? i've often wondered about the matches. i read louis bromfield had a "scotch " plow " which he pulled with a 9n ford/fergie. my problem is where do i find shares for my allis plow? a snap coupler 3 bottom. by the way,what size plow do you use in a match? and what massey do you pull it with ? i checked out one match plowing site once . good luck!! =)

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tim[in]

12-19-1999 17:28:06




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 Re: Re: Re: Allis match special plows did such ever exist? in reply to Jamie Packham, 12-18-1999 19:01:39  
who makes match plows? and how good are kverneland plows for sod and cornstalks and trash? my wd and d17 plows always had a bad habit of clogging up. and why are the match plows so expensive ? who makes them? i might be wrong but i think the plow definitly has a place in agriculture. hope it's not too cold up there! lol thanks



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Jamie Packham

12-21-1999 05:39:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Allis match special plows did such ever exist? in reply to tim[in], 12-19-1999 17:28:06  
Thanks for writing back. I continue to answer you here so that others might comment. To answer your questions; 1- Most of the european companies make a match special.The north american companies have pretty much let this die because it is a money loser for them. This wasn't always so as at one time all of the majors had specials available. As tractors got bigger it made no sense to build equip. no one bought. In antique class almost all of the plows are from Massey or Deere or McCormick etc. By antique I mean drag plows. Check out the website of the International Plowing match for pictures etc. If you search plowing on your web browser you should get a hit for that in the top 20 hits or so.The europeans still build these things as their lines of equip. are smaller and the publicity from winning at the World plowing match carries a lot of prestige. Kvernelands has won this about 20 times or so in the last 30 years.Fiskars and Overum make fine equip. too.

2- Kvernlands are no better or worse than any other for plugging. The better it plows on sod the more likely it is to plug under heavy trash conditions. We still have a Massey 3x 14" mounted for heavy trash or stubble conditions. To plow well in sod you need long,low twist boards and your coulters set very deep. I run mine as low as they will go without the arm dragging on the ground.Of couse this would plug like a son of a bitch in cornstalks.The requirements for trash are the opposite of sod . Since most people have to get over a lot of acres these days a large high frame plow with short boards that pulls easy is the way to go. Kvernlands and others like it do pull hard compared to the same size Deere or Massey.A good sod plow will maintain moldboard contact with the furrow all the way down to it's rest position. (turned over.) The friction of sliding over this long board is what makes the difference.

3- As to why they are so expensive; Most shortline high quality equip is expensive.The steels and materials found in a kvernlands are simply superior to mass produced equip. For example , did you know that all john deere plows now come with moldboards made by Kvernlands? Of course they are Deere design but the manufacturing process is patented so if they want the best you can get that is where they went.There are something like 17 separate layers of different steels in a kvernlands moldboard. Match specials are a good deal more expensive than even the pricey standard models because they are basically special order items that are assembled by hand with many very low volume parts. The same idea as a normal pickup being $20,000 or so but a fancy horse hauler special is more like $60,000. A good compromise is a european plow with corn boards. It will do both jobs fairly well but neither flawlessly.

About your Allis plows plugging. I remember needing HOURS to unplug our allis plow if you didn't catch it as soon as it started to plug.
The low underbeam clearance was not happy with cornstalks.We took to chopping the stalks first if the ground wasn't too wet to use a bush hog or grass chopper.

Go to www.kvernelands.com for info on the newest plows out there. They, are like their advertisng says, the best in the world. Just not cheap. Write back if you want . Perhaps if others are interested in this topic we could create a chat room on Yahoo or something. I invite comment by e-mail or posting here.

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tim[in]

12-21-1999 18:48:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Allis match special plows did such ever exist? in reply to Jamie Packham, 12-21-1999 05:39:39  
i always wondered if they had more adjustments or what it was that made them better for matches. i always noticed on my plows [ac] that the corn stalks went through ok as long as there was the others going through to drag them along ,but if they got a chance to "float" then they would start to plug up. it seemed to me if the clearance was less where the stalks went through where they stayed in the 'flow' they would keep getting pulled through. but then with the possibility of using stalks in a hoop builing for hogs bedding that might not be a problem. since the would be removed and then returned to the field chopped up in manure. but for plowing under tall legumes and cover crops it seems like the trash type plow would be good to. are the sod moldboards good for breaking up the soil ? i can always tell a john deere plowed field by the way the soil looks . and the ac s just turn it on it's side.and the white plows[oliver] turns it over completely. i like my ac s a snap coupler 3 bottom and a pin type wd 52 plow but do wish for the clearance. of course i hear the space between the molboard bottoms{rake"] is the other thing that makes a good trash plow. on the d17 snapcoupler plow with a car tire for a guage wheel i made a longer piece of steel that sets the guage wheel back so there is more stalk clearance there. it helped . yeh maybe on the wd wd45 page they could set up something to amd my other favorite subject 'corn pickers" !!!=) and it will help keep the new board going too! definitly going to search some more on kvernelands plows too! thanks from all of us for your time and knowlege of matchplowing too!! now if we can just figure out the lingo !! amazing how the terms change from one area to another!!lol 2-3 state bordering each other and it goes from corn picking to shucking to harvesting !!lol

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Jamie Packham

12-25-1999 01:43:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Allis match special plows did such ever exist? in reply to tim[in], 12-21-1999 18:48:32  
Glad I could help a little Tim. Competition plows have adjustments for EVERYTHING. One guy that comes to my local match is Brian Fried . He is Canadian champion and about tenth or so in the world. He uses a two furrow 12" plow with four (4) , count em, four hydraulic cylinders on it. In international competition they give you a lot less time so speed matters there.I'd have to draw you a picture to explain where they go and what they do.Yes it is a Kvernelands. They give him a lot of free stuff these days. Norcan made a plow called an SFM plow that was great for trash and it had all the characteristics you describe.I think they still make it but I'm not sure. Feel free to e-mail me if you think of anything else. Also anyone who is interested in plowing as a topic.Maybe we could get the website to create a board just for plowing. There are a lot of people who know much more about it than me. Jamie Packham [email protected]

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tim[in]

12-25-1999 17:07:41




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Allis match special plows did such ever exist? in reply to Jamie Packham, 12-25-1999 01:43:32  
also what do they look for in the competitions? from what i saw in the website they like the plowed land not ot be broken up too much? but the soil to look like it was just sliced and laid over in a continous strip? i might be wrong ,i usually am!!lol i was always trying to get a clean trash free seedbed. and have you ever seen any one compete and win with old ac wd sor d tractors and the pin or snap coupler type of mounted plows? sorry so long winded!!lol

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tim[in]

12-25-1999 16:54:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Allis match special plows did such ever exist? in reply to Jamie Packham, 12-25-1999 01:43:32  
thanks for the reply. =)i wonder if they make plows like that with manual adjustments? i also wonder about taking a regular production model plow and rigging it up ith the adjustments. when i was farming my plowing technique was not the by the book job but got it done! lol i've even thought of taking my plows when i can no longer get allis parts for them and bolting on another companies bottoms or newer allis bottoms so i can continue using them. like a lot of faarmers i think plowing definitly has it's place on the farm. and since i'm looking at a small farm of my very own right now,i'm definitly planning on some plowing anyway. plowing can heal the land as well as damage. especially when turning large amounts of organic matter under. one question are the smaller bottoms or shares better for plowing? i went to 16" spacing on my 3 bottom snap coupler plow for trash and hay cover crops and weeds which i let grow for green manure! thanks. maybe you should start a page on plowing. the future in this country is coming when people will need to raise food in their own yards if they are going to have american raised food at all. and even with a 2 wheel tractor they will need some knowledge of this timeless art .so much of this country's knowledge of this and other crafts and the art of doing things such as this are in their graves or books that have been thrown away because they weren't "up with the modern times!!!" lol thanks again for your knowledge!!=)

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tim[in]

12-21-1999 18:40:36




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Allis match special plows did such ever exist? in reply to Jamie Packham, 12-21-1999 05:39:39  
i always wondered if they had more adjustments or what it was that made them better for matches. i always noticed on my plows [ac] that the corn stalks went through ok as long as there was the others going through to drag them along ,but if they got a chance to "float" then they would start to plug up. it seemed to me if the clearance was less where the stalks went through where they stayed in the 'flow' they would keep getting pulled through. but then with the possibility of using stalks in a hoop builing for hogs bedding that might not be a problem. since the would be removed and then returned to the field chopped up in manure. but for plowing under tall legumes and cover crops it seems like the trash type plow would be good to. are the sod moldboards good for breaking up the soil ? i can always tell a john deere plowed field by the way the soil looks . and the ac s just turn it on it's side.and the white plows[oliver] turns it over completely. i like my ac s a snap coupler 3 bottom and a pin type wd 52 plow but do wish for the clearance. of course i hear the space between the molboard bottoms{rake"] is the other thing that makes a good trash plow. on the d17 snapcoupler plow with a car tire for a guage wheel i made a longer piece of steel that sets the guage wheel back so there is more stalk clearance there. it helped . yeh maybe on the wd wd45 page they could set up something to amd my other favorite subject 'corn pickers" !!!=) and it will help keep the new board going too! definitly going to search some more on kvernelands plows too! thanks from all of us for your time and knowlege of matchplowing too!! now if we can just figure out the lingo !! amazing how the terms change from one area to another!!lol 2-3 state bordering each other and it goes from corn picking to shucking to harvesting !!lol

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