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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
:

WD-45 Rebuild NEED HELP!!!

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Brian L. Thompson

05-13-2008 19:30:39




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Alright last year I purchased a WD-45 Allis Chalmers with a Stuck Engine, over the winter I managed to break the engine loose and remove the pistons, however two of the sleeves also came out. I've have since cleaned the pistons and I'm ready to put back together however the notes I took soak up some oil from the rags covering the parts and are unreadable. Therefore, before i can go any further I have a few questions. First I need to know which side of the connecting rods face the camshift? The side with the the numbers stampede into them or the unmarked side to ensure that my pistons have the correct front. Also is there any way to tell from the pistons which number hole they go in? I know that the connecting rods are offset and this does matter, however if I can get the correct offset in the right position would it matter if I had two of the pistons backwards number hole wise. Also what would be the best way to reinstall the sleeves in the block? Thanks for the help Brian L. Thompson

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Lanse

05-15-2008 04:39:42




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 Re: WD-45 Rebuild NEED HELP!!! in reply to Brian L. Thompson, 05-13-2008 19:30:39  
yes, get a manuel. Mine said to cold stamp the cylender number on the rods as you remove them. I used a system of bread ties in dissessembly. 1=cylender 1 2=cylender 2, etc



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S.C.

05-14-2008 20:35:11




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 Re: WD-45 Rebuild NEED HELP!!! in reply to Brian L. Thompson, 05-13-2008 19:30:39  
Do yourself a favor and buy a service manual. I bought a reprint on e-bay for $15. If I have a big project like that, the first thing I get is the service manual. It doesn't matter how good of a mechanic you are, these books were made for a reason.



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Brian Thompson

05-14-2008 11:26:50




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 Re: WD-45 Rebuild NEED HELP!!! in reply to Brian L. Thompson, 05-13-2008 19:30:39  
Ok i understand where the piston should match the hole it was taken from, however since there is no way to tell from the pistons which hole they are from all i can do is match the hole with the correct connecting rod offset. If i do this would there be any problems to watch out for? Also I noticed early that the connecting rods are held to the pistons with a ring system and one nut, should this nut face the camshift or otherwise to achieve the correct front for the pistons. Because I do not believe since these are concave pistons instead of the normal flat tops that the front is marked in any way.

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DickL

05-14-2008 17:41:18




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 Ring Gap in reply to Brian Thompson, 05-14-2008 11:26:50  
I took a junk sleeve to do a show and tell on tractor talk a few days back. The ring in the picture is way way to wide. It is .029" It should be .007 to be up to specs.

third party image

How to measure the ring gap with a feeled gauge.

third party image


What a ridge reamer looks like. I never remove a piston with out first using a ridge reamer. I want to see the ridge cutter witness on the top of the cylinder wall even if I can not feel a ledge. You can see in the above picture where I used the ridge reamer on the junk sleeve before removing it by the rust.

third party image

This is a picture of a B but the offset is the same principal. You can also see that when the rod is proper that the rod is centered on the wrist pin in the piston.

third party image

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DickL

05-14-2008 15:41:41




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 Re: WD-45 Rebuild NEED HELP!!! in reply to Brian Thompson, 05-14-2008 11:26:50  
What have you done to the pistons and sleeves??
Do you have new Rings??
If you have new rings what is the ring gap??
If you do not have new rings what is the ring gap??
Have you used a ridge reamer on the sleeves??
Have you honed the sleeves??

No mater what you have done these pistons do not have a front or back to them. You only need to be concerened with the off set rods.



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garytomaszewski

05-14-2008 14:16:23




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 Re: WD-45 Rebuild NEED HELP!!! in reply to Brian Thompson, 05-14-2008 11:26:50  
If the rod orientation is correct so should the piston, they are not different pistons for each hole. If the rods and pistons were not disassembled returning them isn't a problem. From your questions, I have to assume you are new to overhauling,so once again get a manual ($20-25), then find a general engine overhaul manual. Go to the tractor talk forum and pick up Lanses misadventures of trying to rebuild an Allis B without proper information and/or tools. This IS ROCKET SCIENCE a sloppy & half prepared job leads to frustration, broken parts, and poor results. There are good and knowledgable people here who are willing to help if you listen. Good luck !

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Jerry Coulter

05-14-2008 04:36:19




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 Re: WD-45 Rebuild NEED HELP!!! in reply to Brian L. Thompson, 05-13-2008 19:30:39  
The numbers stamped on the rods and caps normally face the camshaft. #1 is closest to the water pump. Be certain the liner and block are both clean where they meet and use new O rings. Using plasti-gauge, adjust the shims so that there is .002" to .003" bearing clearance to the crank. Torque the rod nuts 70 ft. lbs. If luglock nuts are used instead of castellated, they are torqued to 40 ft. lbs.

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DickL

05-13-2008 20:06:07




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 Re: WD-45 Rebuild NEED HELP!!! in reply to Brian L. Thompson, 05-13-2008 19:30:39  
Man it looks like several are up a proverbial tributary without adequate means of locomotion.

The rods are offset so the block could be shorter. the narrow side would then go toward the main bearing cap side. that means that the rods do not all go the same direction. You will be able to look at the rod journal as the rod bearing starts to locate if it is centered on the crankshaft while the rod is centered in the piston.

The block should be cleaned to where the sleeve will turn in place by hand before the O rings are installed. The sleeve should then be able to be put in with very little force.

If you have not or are not going to check ring gap or sleeve and piston diameters it will not make any difference which piston you put in what cylinder.

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garytomaszewski

05-13-2008 19:56:19




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 Re: WD-45 Rebuild NEED HELP!!! in reply to Brian L. Thompson, 05-13-2008 19:30:39  
Same help I'm willing to give anyone; Get a manual you will need it for torque values. You have no. stamped on rods that should give the "hole", the pistons should go in the sleeves they came from because they are "wear mated"



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Gordon in IN

05-14-2008 22:00:27




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 Re: WD-45 Rebuild NEED HELP!!! in reply to garytomaszewski, 05-13-2008 19:56:19  
Getting a service manual is excellent advice. Be sure to get one for a WD 45. The WD and WD 45 engines ARE DIFFERENT than the B, C or CA engines, The WDs and the WD 45s that I have rebuilt DO NOT have offset connecting rod journals or caps. The entire connecting rods are offset in the piston with the piston pins centered in the pistons. The service manual goes into some detail on this and shows how to install the connecting rods in the pistons and on the piston pins. Number 1 and 4 are installed one way and numbers 2 and 3 are installed differently.

If not done properly the piston pin may score the cylinder sleeves, "lock up" the engine and or cause a LOT of damage when you try to start the engine.

The pictures that DickL posted appear to be of a B, C or CA engine block and connecting rods.

Be REAL SURE that you assemble the connecting rods and pistons and piston pin correctly (as well as EVERYTHING ELSE) before you start the engine.

Good luck on your efforts and and I suggest that you double check each step of your assembly process.

.

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Dick L

05-15-2008 06:56:21




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 Re: WD-45 Rebuild NEED HELP!!! in reply to Gordon in IN, 05-14-2008 22:00:27  
He stated in his first post that he had off set I took it as rods. I stated that my picture is of a B and what needed to be watched when assembling. That is still the case with offset pistons. If they are not off set rods then watching the location while assembling will show if it is going together properly making sure the rod is centered between the opening in the piston for the rod.

If he does not know the difference then I revert back to my first statement that it seems that he is up a proverbial tributary without adequate means of locomotion.
Which means that he needs help. Probly help standing beside him.

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Gordon in IN

05-15-2008 21:00:51




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 Re: WD-45 Rebuild NEED HELP!!! in reply to Dick L, 05-15-2008 06:56:21  
DickL, The WD and WD45 connecting rods are NOT centered in the pistons, that is the "catch". The connecting rods do not have any offset and are centered on the crank journal. The rods are off center in the pistons. The manual for the WD and WD 45 clearly states this and shows how to position the rods on the piston pins in the pistons - off center. I do not desire to argue with anyone, I just don't want anyone to assemble a WD or WD 45 engine incorrectly and damage it. All the advice about geting a manual is valid.

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DickL

05-16-2008 05:55:14




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 Re: WD-45 Rebuild NEED HELP!!! in reply to Gordon in IN, 05-15-2008 21:00:51  

A Manual is absolutely mandatory in any situation. It will give point gap as well as all the other often ask questions that most mechanics know from memory. My point was and still always is to look at how things are gong together, manual or not, because with a manual things happen because if we are not using our eyes and mind. No challenge to you or anyone.



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