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Middle of wd45 engine rebuild...need help!

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orangeman-1

03-29-2008 19:21:17




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Okay, I'm in the middle of rebuilding my wd45 engine. I had my crank ground and ordered new bearings (part# ms-209p-20). While installing crank today i torqued main cap bolts to 85 lbs and plastic gaged the mains and all were within .002 - .003. However, I could not turn the crank with a screw driver in the pulley hole. I started loosing the caps one at a time suspecting it was the rear seal. It was not the rear seal nor, did individually loosing any one of the caps make a difference until all the caps were loose. I then torqued the mains to 70lbs with the same problem. Then 60lbs and the crank turns free. With my crappy instrumentation and knowhow...I measured the crank and the front main is 2.415 and center and rear are 2.455. Is this normal and if not What should I do???
Also, is any kind of sealant recommended on the sleeve o rings?
Sorry for the long post.

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DARDAN

03-31-2008 23:38:37




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 Re: Middle of wd45 engine rebuild...need help! in reply to orangeman-1, 03-29-2008 19:21:17  
Somthing is out of kelter. Bent crank? Their own weight can bend them if they fall over or are handled rough. I've built a passel of engines in the last 40+ years and they all lasted well.
If the parts are right and the assembling right, the crank should turn with the twist of the wrist when finish installed, without the rods. Unless it is something HUGE.
I use 50wt engine oil to assemble everything but the cam lobes and gear, moly paste for them. I shoot for no more than .0015" with the plastigage on EVERY journal and they are allways free turning or I find out why not.
I have never had to tow/push start a new engine and they have not failed-----yet. You know I just jinkxed myself!
I'm not claiming I'm great, I'm just very picky about cleanliness and fit-up. It pays off for me. And if I get in unknown turf I ask for help and do my homework. There is no better place for help and homework than the people on this site. It would have been great to have had access to this wealth of experience and knoledge long ago when I started wrench'n.

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mlpankey

03-30-2008 15:02:00




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 Re: Middle of wd45 engine rebuild...need help! in reply to orangeman-1, 03-29-2008 19:21:17  
torque caps with bearings installed . no crank. use a inside mic. or bore gauge then mic. the journals . if crank dont turn by hand free with rods and piston then its not sized right. .you will probably find that the crank journal and bearing main joirnal are the same size then youll need to turn the crannk 2 thosandths or 10 under. i had a crank come back that locked up when torqued the mains it needed 2 thoiusadnths removed then rotated freely even with the rods and pistons.

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alliswd45

03-30-2008 14:39:22




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 Re: Middle of wd45 engine rebuild...need help! in reply to orangeman-1, 03-29-2008 19:21:17  
No sealant recomended for the o rings, just dip your finger in some engine oil and rub it on the o-rings.



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jd plowboy

03-30-2008 12:30:57




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 Re: Middle of wd45 engine rebuild...need help! in reply to orangeman-1, 03-29-2008 19:21:17  
did you put shims under your main caps.when we did my wd45 overhaul we had to shim the mains and i got the machine shop that did the work to shim the mains and they were too tight. had to take a bar to move the crank and had assembly lube on each bearing but when you got it turning you could turn it by hand. got it together and it ran 10 minutes and started knocking. was told by a couple ac people that they had to be shims and have to be alittle loose to last. we put a couple more shims under the caps and it has been running fine for a year now. just my 2 cents worth learning the hard way. paid the machine shop man $50 to tighten it to tight.

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PullingWC

03-30-2008 08:16:54




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 Re: Middle of wd45 engine rebuild...need help! in reply to orangeman-1, 03-29-2008 19:21:17  
I just got done overhauling a D-17 motor same problem,Firet thing I did was to remove the middle bearing just leaving the outside two torque them down and check if the crank turns if so take your crank and bearing back to the shop you had grind it and have them up the middle up. If that does not help check to see if there are any imperfections may need to smooth out all three bearing .



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Dick L

03-30-2008 07:18:08




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 Re: Middle of wd45 engine rebuild...need help! in reply to orangeman-1, 03-29-2008 19:21:17  
Could it be that you (didn't torque) the main caps to 85 pounds when you did your plastigage check? You can not get a true reading without proper torque.



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cj in wisconsin

03-30-2008 07:12:31




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 Re: Middle of wd45 engine rebuild...need help! in reply to orangeman-1, 03-29-2008 19:21:17  
make darn sure you have the bearing caps oriented the right way , if not they will bind exactly as you described.



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rustymn

03-30-2008 06:07:03




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 Re: Middle of wd45 engine rebuild...need help! in reply to orangeman-1, 03-29-2008 19:21:17  
If you just installed the crank and torqued the main caps. you should be able to turn over the crank by hand with a little effort if the rods are still not installed yet.



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oldhousehugger25

03-29-2008 23:28:10




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 Re: Middle of wd45 engine rebuild...need help! in reply to orangeman-1, 03-29-2008 19:21:17  
I am just finishing up a Perkins 152 and one thing I noticed about the parts as I was putting the crank and rod bearings and caps back in was that they seemed to have a lot of really small dings and burs on some of the edges and corners. I had the rod wrist pin bushings honed true when they did the block (important when installing new wrist pin bushings. Anyhow as I was fitting things up I carefully lapped all my caps flat and knocked off all the dings on the edges before I torqued things down. As I see it, if it was perfect at the factory and then me or somebody else dings a corner, then I better smooth that ding out or the caps won't fit up square to the original line bore.
Same things true for bearings out of the box. I've gotten bearings from the factory with burs and even one with a grain of sand ground into it.
I got a new oil pump from here abouts (india made) which still had casting sand from the core in the inside passages and if I hadn't looked real hard and taken it apart and cleaned it all out there would have gone this rebuild Kaboom!!
I'm getting so I've got to wear 2x magnifiers nearly all the time when I'm working cause my eyes are going, but you see the little stuff which makes a difference. Good luck

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matt scott

03-29-2008 22:20:05




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 Re: Middle of wd45 engine rebuild...need help! in reply to orangeman-1, 03-29-2008 19:21:17  
Did you have the block line bored? I had one wd45 that i didn't line bore the block and it did the same thing that yours is doing. Take the crank and the bearing shells out and torque the main caps down. Meausre the bore with a caliper up and down and then side to side. The measurement should be close to the same and within spec. If the crank runs in a loose bearing for some time it will hammer out the bearing bore up and down and it will draw the sides in just enough that when you torque the cap down it will get tight.

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orangeman-1

03-29-2008 21:11:09




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 Re: Middle of wd45 engine rebuild...need help! in reply to orangeman-1, 03-29-2008 19:21:17  
Thanks for the responses...Yes, I used assembly lube on the main bearings and oiled the felt rear seal- Currently thats the only thing I have installed. I spent all day cleaning up the block for assembly. This is the first tractor engine I've rebuild so, I don't have a good feel for what it should feel like. What is too tight? Also, any advice on the sleeve o rings as far as sealant. I read some guys are using dish soap to lube the o rings but, what about sealant. I have the block upper lip and the lower o ring area very clean.

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steve(ill)

03-29-2008 20:48:22




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 Re: Middle of wd45 engine rebuild...need help! in reply to orangeman-1, 03-29-2008 19:21:17  
i made a small TEE socket that i can plug into a torque wrench. i try to roll the motor with the torque wrench. as the guys said, with new bearings and new rings, you can have quite a drag. i noted 25-30 ft pounds to keep the motor rolling 1/4 turn, after i got it turning. put plenty of oil in the rings and bearings during assembly. STP or something like that will also cause a lot of drag, that stuff is thick.-- when i get a motor in the tractor the electric starter always spins it over. after running 15 minutes i have tried to hand crank the motor and it is much easier then. rings and bearings just need a little spin time.

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MLPANKEY

03-30-2008 17:54:50




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 Re: Middle of wd45 engine rebuild...need help! in reply to steve(ill), 03-29-2008 20:48:22  
:roll: :roll: with a torque wrench turned to 90 degrees from the floor .with the weight of the torque wrench by itself should turn torward the ground if it dont the crank is to tight as for bearing needing breaking in thats absolutely bogus the crank runs on a oil film between the bearing and crank journal if it isnt then its wiping the bearings out creating its on clearance and sending metal fillings into the oil pan.

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old

03-29-2008 20:36:21




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 Re: Middle of wd45 engine rebuild...need help! in reply to orangeman-1, 03-29-2008 19:21:17  
#1 did you coat all bearings with a good lube. prelube, STP etc. Also did you also coat the pistons/rings with the same thing. If you didn't then thats your problem. Most engines I rebuild are tight and it does take a lot to turn them over



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bjb in Ne

03-29-2008 19:30:18




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 Re: Middle of wd45 engine rebuild...need help! in reply to orangeman-1, 03-29-2008 19:21:17  
If you have your bearings within the specs its going to take a lot more than a screw driver to turn it over. My last engine rebuild (it was continental 4 cylinder engine) I had to use a 3/4 in drive breaker bar to turn it over with all the bearings tight, and they were slightly worn. Did you put any assembly lube (grease) onto the bearing before your final torquing?



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Brian Jasper co. Ia

03-30-2008 08:43:26




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 Re: Middle of wd45 engine rebuild...need help! in reply to bjb in Ne, 03-29-2008 19:30:18  
Matt is on the right track. Whenever you rebuild an engine you should check the line bore. The crank and bearings can be correct, but if one of the main bearing bores are off, it will bind. To check the bores all you need is a true straight edge and a set of feeler gages. Take you block back to the machine shop and have it checked.



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