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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
:

Reground tappets okay on used cam for B engine?

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Squidtone

02-14-2008 19:23:51




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Hi,
I'm in the midst of gathering parts for my 1950 B rebuild. I'd like to reuse the cam, but a few of the tappets got mixed up. I tried to match them to the lobes, and it seems like I matched them, but there's an element of doubt in my mind...So, if I get the tappets resurfaced, can I use resurfaced tappets on a used cam? The cam looks great, but judging from the tappets, there are slight "wear" patterns unique to each lobe. Link to pix (last few photos)
Thanks,
Dave

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DARDAN

02-20-2008 16:10:47




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 Re: Reground tappets okay on used cam for B engine? in reply to Squidtone, 02-14-2008 19:23:51  
I have a collection of pieces of 2x6 drilled for lifters, push rods, and valves to hopefully avoid this whole issue. They work real well if I don't get clumbsy and dump them---again.



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DARDAN

02-19-2008 12:06:15




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 Re: Reground tappets okay on used cam for B engine? in reply to Squidtone, 02-14-2008 19:23:51  
Please, let me clarify something. I wouldn't normaly practice or recomend using low grade parts on an engine or project that was going to see a lot of heavey service, but most of these slow speed engines will give long dependable service without being 'perfect'.
The quality and effectivness of lubricants have improved drasticaly since the '30s and even since the '60s. Most of the wear we experience on these old tractors is from poorer lubes, and ole farmer's alergies to new, clean oil!

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squidtone

02-19-2008 05:23:12




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 Re: Reground tappets okay on used cam for B engine? in reply to Squidtone, 02-14-2008 19:23:51  
I appreciate all the replies. I am going to re-use the old cam and tappets. I"ll double check the matchup and hope they get "un-mixed". I"ll post back with the results!
By the way, I just removed the cam bearings and they were stubborn!
Dave



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DARDAN

02-19-2008 00:16:15




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 Re: Reground tappets okay on used cam for B engine? in reply to Squidtone, 02-14-2008 19:23:51  
Dick; Yes, as long the lobes wern't going to pot, old lifters back on same old lobe will indure because the wear has matched the parts. At a time when money was tight, I dismantled the lifters and hot tanked them with the rest of a 150k engine. New brgs, rings, gsks, the same ole cam & lifters kept matched to their original parts and another 100k and still working.
300# OPEN pressure is not all that uncommon.
Yes, some people don't understand and/or don't have the patience to meet or exceed that 20 minut break-in period. And it usually bites them.

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mlpankey

02-20-2008 11:19:09




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 Re: Reground tappets okay on used cam for B engine? in reply to DARDAN, 02-19-2008 00:16:15  
i miss understood thought we were talking seat pressure. 300 lbs seat pressure uses roller lifters or 1200 dollar ceramic lifters for the rules that say no rollers



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Dick L

02-19-2008 06:36:04




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 Re: Reground tappets okay on used cam for B engine? in reply to DARDAN, 02-19-2008 00:16:15  
So I have been wasting my time reconditioning the tappes every time I have rebuilt an engine over the last 50 years. Just put them back in the origial holes and let it go at that.



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mlpankey

02-17-2008 13:05:12




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 Re: Reground tappets okay on used cam for B engine? in reply to Squidtone, 02-14-2008 19:23:51  
aint nobody runnin 300 lbs spring rate that aint runnin a roller cam and roller cam bearings .



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mlpankey

02-17-2008 13:00:52




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 Re: Reground tappets okay on used cam for B engine? in reply to Squidtone, 02-14-2008 19:23:51  
yeah i kinda agree with dick l . my lifters get put in masson jars with oil . then i use cam lube when i rebuild for the break in. id bet most dont run there engines for twenty minutes at first startup to break in the cam properly.seen to many cams not broke in properly cause they want to start and sto the engine several times to adjust lash change timming or what ever to soon .



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DARDAN

02-15-2008 14:51:50




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 Re: Reground tappets okay on used cam for B engine? in reply to Squidtone, 02-14-2008 19:23:51  
Rule of thumb for auto engines; old lifters with same lobe, or in pinch, new lifter on old lobe. NEVER old lifter on new lobe. I would only consider replacing the lifters that you can't match, if there is a lot of wear.

Dick, Re spring pressure;
These old low rpm tractor engines with their low valve spring loads(100# or less) are pretty forgiving if the lifter to lobe mating isn't perfect. But an auto engine with sometimes 300#+ spring pressure has NO forgiveness if the mating is not near perfect. More spring pressure, more load to sqeeze out the lube and cause gauling.
I've seen many of these old tractor overhauled with reused tired (by auto standards) cam and lifters and never heard of one selfdestructing. It might lose a couple of ponys from the reduced effectivness of a tired cam but thats about all.

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DickL

02-16-2008 04:55:07




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 Re: Reground tappets okay on used cam for B engine? in reply to DARDAN, 02-15-2008 14:51:50  
Are you saying that I only have to worry about that problem if I don't put the lifters back in the same holes? So if I pull the cam in a car or truck engine, install new cam bearings, put the lifters back in the same hole they came out of, re install the cam and I am good to go.



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DARDAN

02-15-2008 14:23:10




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 Re: Reground tappets okay on used cam for B engine? in reply to Squidtone, 02-14-2008 19:23:51  
I try to repair/rebuild stuff about as good as I can get it, but ironicly, I bet you could put one of these tractor engines together with nearly everything just OUT of spec, keep good clean oil in it, and the darn thing would last for decades at the useage most of us on here would put on it.



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catskinr

02-15-2008 08:04:53




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 Re: Reground tappets okay on used cam for B engine? in reply to Squidtone, 02-14-2008 19:23:51  
When I rebuilt the engine in my C, all of the tappets had worn concave or flat. They should be very slightly convex. My research showed that flathead Fords used a 96" radius on their tappets, so I came up with a setup on the tool and cutter grinder to resurface them to that radius. In retrospect, it would have been easier and cheaper to have someone else do them, but I had fun and I learned something. One source for custom reground tappets is Syracuse Crank & Machine.

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Kentb of SWMO

02-15-2008 07:37:43




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 Re: Reground tappets okay on used cam for B engine? in reply to Squidtone, 02-14-2008 19:23:51  
I alway mark the lifter so they will go back in the same hole that they came from. I do this because I work on all type of engines. This is more important as the pressure from the spring increases as in a highly modified engine for racing. In an engine like a B where the spring pressure is very low, 1600 RPM engine, I do not think you have much to worry about.

Kent



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Dick L

02-15-2008 08:26:14




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 Re: Reground tappets okay on used cam for B engine? in reply to Kentb of SWMO, 02-15-2008 07:37:43  
So if you decide to buy a set of rebuilt or new tappets to put in your race engine, how do you figure out which hole they are suppose to go in.
I gotta learn something new here. What does the valve spring pressure have to do with a used tappet that is within spec. If it has something to do with using one out of spec, why would you use it.
I get lost here. Please enlighten me.



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Kentb of SWMO

02-21-2008 12:10:06




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 Re: Reground tappets okay on used cam for B engine? in reply to Dick L, 02-15-2008 08:26:14  
Sorry for the late reply as my E-mai; has been down. With reground lifter it DO NOT matter which hole they go in as they all have the same crown. The will then wear to the cam. After the lifters have been run them you should make which hole they came from.

Kent



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DickL

02-14-2008 19:39:01




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 Re: Reground tappets okay on used cam for B engine? in reply to Squidtone, 02-14-2008 19:23:51  
I have never worried about mixing up the tappets. I take them out and drop them in a coffee can to wash and clean. If they need resurfacing I do that before reinstalling them. If the cam looks bad I take it and have it ground back to standard. If a lobe is worn down much I replace the cam.



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