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D17iv rsfa

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flamegunrh

02-08-2008 09:02:26




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Whew,a little knowledge is a dangerous thing...I'm probably a threat to the western hemisphere... Here goes;Ihave a'67 D17iv it has the "standard"wide front end,I think,because it has 5 bolt wheels.I am planning to put a front end loader on it so thought that some heavy duty hardware up front would be smart so 6 bolt wheels 7.50x16 and the matching hubs the parts book lists different wheel bearings on the 5&6 bolt wheel hub also different spindle #s between 50" min.tread and standard gas axle assy.Has anyone attempted this?Is the 50"tread axle assy. the beefier of the two?maybe I'm just looking for a whole front end?Any insights would be appreciated as I'm really trying to save the money for the loader.thanx

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flamegunrh

02-08-2008 14:13:49




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 Re: D17iv rsfa in reply to flamegunrh, 02-08-2008 09:02:26  
I think I am with your theory Skyhigh,the book says serial#83273 which would make that a mid 66 model year change The late 66's and all 67's should have had the 6 bolt wheels and the bigger bearings you had to have machined into yours...SoI probably have an early front end on mine,so if I'm reading you right as long as my spindles aren't shot the new 6 bolt hubs WILL fit with a little machineing?My serial#is 866xx so itmust have been narrow when born,at least your theory seems to verify the thoughts and data that has been shared today by all the members.Thanx.I know spring is getting close and I abhor ordering the wrong parts wastes time,money,and sunshine

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Joe(TX)

02-08-2008 12:34:05




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 Re: D17iv rsfa in reply to flamegunrh, 02-08-2008 09:02:26  
I think the series IV should have the 6 bolt wheels already. Could be mistaken though.



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Skyhighballoon(MO)

02-08-2008 13:07:44




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 Re: D17iv rsfa in reply to Joe(TX), 02-08-2008 12:34:05  
Early Series IV had 5 bolt front wheels later changed to 6 bolt. If yours is a 67 I think it should have been 6 bolt WFE already unless someone swapped it out already or was a NF to start. Mine is a late 65 and had a 5 bolt hubs on the WFE. Also, and I could be wrong, I think a true "roll shift" front axle has slots in the front instead of just holes for the width adjustments. I know the WFE changed with Series III and got heavier.

On spindles, I bought new spindles back in 2005 to replace mine (5 bolt hubs remember) and the standard ones did not fit. They were too tall once mounted in the spindle carriers and would have needed a custome made thick thrust bushing at the bottom to make them work. So we rebuilt/reused my old ones and took the new ones back. My theory is the older 5 bolt hub tractors had slightly different spindles and they only make them now for the 6 bolt versions. I also replaced hubs/wheel bearings at the time and the new 5 bolt hubs did not directly fit (A&I), had machine a few hundreds off the inside race to fit the dust covers in.

If it was me, I'd go to the new spindles if worn, 6 bolt hubs and be sure to get as heavy of front wheels as you can. They do make HD loader type front wheels just for that kind of applicaion. 7.50X16 sounds right for front tires.

While I was at it, you probably need to check and replace the front pivot bushing in the front end casting. Might need to rework/remachine the front pivot as well.

Mike

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flamegunrh

02-08-2008 12:17:47




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 Re: D17iv rsfa in reply to flamegunrh, 02-08-2008 09:02:26  
Ok,JMS I got you the lift cylinders are 3" so the pump has the poop to move the load,figuring Westy has it designed right that part will fly,figuratively speaking.Iam still looking at weak points on my 17 it is only about 4000# tractor and the load (hay bales)is on the front end ... So that is my concern about getting the right wheels and bearings up front someday as the grandkids get older the 17 will get to see a parade or two if I don't break her beyond repair

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JMS/.MN

02-08-2008 17:27:43




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 Re: D17iv rsfa in reply to flamegunrh, 02-08-2008 12:17:47  
The WD45 is about 4400 lbs. D17 is heavier- and without looking at the book which is in the shop- I would guess over 5 grand. Tractor data can be checked but I never trust their info. Way too many mistakes- ask here for someone to check the op manual. Fine if you have options for heavier hubs- that never hurts. When moving big bales in mud, I"d change to wider front tires- like 7.5 or 9.00, 11.00 implement tires- as long as they clear the spindle. Years ago I had some (I think Buick wheels, mid 50s) fit the bolt pattern, took about an 8.25x14 tire- carried better in mud than the 600-16. First issue with overload is likely to be loose wheel bolts, wallowing out holes in rim, by not noticing loose wheels soon enough. Solve that by adding a nut on the inside of the rim- do that on the loader and 3 field tractors- haven"t lost a wheel since. Do have to remember to remove it before loosening bolts! Next one is breaking a hub. Last one is spindle, but with your loads, I doubt that will happen, unless you simply get too rough with the tractor. Hey- we can break anything!.

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flamegunrh

02-08-2008 11:23:34




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 Re: D17iv rsfa in reply to flamegunrh, 02-08-2008 09:02:26  
The anticipated load would be a 1500# praire hay bale,the max load would be right at 2000# alfalfa bale,most other loads would be less than these two extremes.The likely loader is a Westendorf TA26,Iam really maxxing out the hydraulics I think because the 17's pump is supposed to bypass at 2100# ,If I am reading the spec's right.I'm still a world threat.Thanx



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JMS/.MN

02-08-2008 11:48:46




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 Re: D17iv rsfa in reply to flamegunrh, 02-08-2008 11:23:34  
The rating on the pump is not loader lift capacity. It is psi going to the cylinder. Older D17s had higher pressure, lower volume. You have the INDEPENDENT pump on the right side of the tractor, where the pulley would be on earlier series. Operates at that pressure, and higher volume. Lift capacity of the loader is a function of cylinder diameter, psi, and the geometry of the loader frame. Lift is generally generated on the bottom side of the cylinder, using the entire face of the "ram follower"- brain fade, can"t think of the right term!. Return, or down pressure, is less, due to the area of the ram taking up some space inside the cylinder. So, any cylinder can push more than it can pull. Area of the cylinder diameter, times psi, gives # of push for the cylinder.

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Gary in da UP

02-08-2008 10:47:34




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 Re: D17iv rsfa in reply to flamegunrh, 02-08-2008 09:02:26  
Iff'en it was mine I would service the axle you have , and use it .Re-pack the bearings and adjust, and generally look it over. If you don't abuse it you may be just fine with that axle. Just my $.02 worth. gh



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JMS/.MN

02-08-2008 10:40:31




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 Re: D17iv rsfa in reply to flamegunrh, 02-08-2008 09:02:26  
First question is....what do you intend to lift? If you"re just lifting putzy stuff on a hobby farm- no issue. Loading manure on a typical full-time farm- with an oversized bucket- can be an issue. Loading with a crane/boom in a salvage yard-could very well be an issue. I rebuilt a JD148 loader over 25 years ago because of poor JD design- would break engine mounting/frame bolts. First time, tap larger, second time, weld the bolt into the casting. Third time- buy a new engine block. I built the frame back to the rear axle (pix in archives), and have had no problems since. Granted, I did replace the 3020 front hubs with 4020 hubs, which are a full inch thick the entire circumference. Load? Dairy manure from stacking slab and pole shed.

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