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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum

190 xt

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01-31-2008 16:45:50

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i have heard all this chatter about the tranny and rear end problems in these tractors i tend to wonder if it has more to do with turning them up to 125 hp and asking the tractor to do things it was not built to do just wondered what others think about this subject thanks David

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cadet trooper

02-01-2008 15:42:55

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 Re: 190 xt in reply to acdave, 01-31-2008 16:45:50  
I think everyone is saying the same thing and that is if you want 120 to 130 hp you are going to pay for it one way or the other I've seen it in the 70's and 80's with Deere and IH they were buying 1086's and 4440's and as soon as the warranty was up turning them up to the max and hanging saddle tanks and pulling the whole farm behind them and then wondering why the thier tractor's guts are all over the dealers shop floor with a then $3400 rearend bill now probably double and blaming the mfgr for building light equipment and they were going to switch colors because of it. You can't believe the amount of times I've seen customers going toe to toe with the service manager over this issue because most good mechanics whether by training or otherwise can spot over torquing by looking at the gears and the stress on bearings much like a surgeon when they open someone up and say you need to change your lifestyle. Bottom line if you need a bigger tractor by that one instead of trying to do more with less the downside is used bigger tractors have the same malady.

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856 puller

02-01-2008 05:45:26

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 Re: 190 xt in reply to acdave, 01-31-2008 16:45:50  
The problems i saw were mostly due to people grinding gears when shifting mostly in road gear. the next was no dif lock when guys were plowing in the furrow and the top wheel was spinning prety soon they had posi and things went good till they tried to turn. most 190s were out of heavy pulling duty by time i got to them. they sure were a spunky for there size one guy told me he had to stop baleing with it because if he hit the throttel to fast it would shear the pins in the baler

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Jack a

02-01-2008 04:39:19

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 Re: 190 xt in reply to acdave, 01-31-2008 16:45:50  
When I worked at the AC dealer for a few years I never saw a 190xt that dynoed less than 110 hp and on up tp 150 hp. 110 hp might be alright but anything more is bad news. I'd keep em at less than 100 if it were me. Also the nature of the helical tranny is to force the gears apart therefore they require maintenance in the thrust brg area no matter the hp. But the major wrecks were because of excessive hp in my view.

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ac farmer

01-31-2008 20:24:51

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 Re: 190 xt in reply to acdave, 01-31-2008 16:45:50  
I think IT has a lot to do with that, increased HP,and it seems they dont slide together far enough they get worn from use or abuse and they like to pop out of gear. I have a straight 190 smaller axle its got 7500 hours on it wasnt worked real hard its whole life and never had any trans problems yet.

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cadet trooper

01-31-2008 17:53:25

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 Re: 190 xt in reply to acdave, 01-31-2008 16:45:50  
Ok, here is how it was explained to me in my first dealers meeting in 1979 with AC sales and engineering when they were asking what are the obstacles we were encountering on our sales calls in territories that hadn't had dealers for awhile and that was a number one topic of discussion and that was the 190 and 200 rearend problem and first of all came the standard answer that every mfr has faced this one time or another when upgrading HP in a new series tractor after they noticed the look of hohum on our faces they broke into groups and I was able to latch onto an older tech engineer and he said the problem is that the hookup of the Roosa-Master pump and the 301ci engine w/turbo turned out to be a perfect power match because the pump keeps delivering the same fuel at reduced RPM thus the smoke and the 301's stroke keeps it humping and the next think to go is the weakest point the thing we didn't do was on the dyno we stopped at rated 2200RPM but what we would have found was that if we cranked it down harder and pulled the RPM lower we would have been shocked at the HP because of the torque rise he said we've done it but he wouldn't say what that was. I asked if there were any plans to change pumps and he said never on the 301 but probably on the 426 because the pump match was causing crankshaft problems and they were looking at American Bosch but they wanted a guarantee on purchasing so many and AC wouldn't do that finally they reached an agreement on the 8000 series in 1982 in the 426 engine that's why the 8010 kept the Roosy and the rest ran Bosch.

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02-01-2008 16:54:17

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 Re: 190 xt in reply to cadet trooper, 01-31-2008 17:53:25  
Later 8010 got the ambac pump as well.

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cadet trooper

02-02-2008 14:19:29

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 Re: 190 xt in reply to L.D.W., 02-01-2008 16:54:17  
Well, I guess it goes to show you never say never. That must of happened when it went to DA because they didn't have it on the original.

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01-31-2008 17:49:06

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 Re: 190 xt in reply to acdave, 01-31-2008 16:45:50  
The first series ones did have problems because they made the rear ends and transmission to light for the engine. I have been told they used the D-19 rear end and transmission and tried to get by but found the engine was just to much. The later ones had a lot less problems because they beefed things up in them

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