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Magneto trouble again!

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Pete S

01-04-2008 13:27:17




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I had posted some questions a while ago regarding a magneto on a WD45. Well, I thought I had'er fixed, but she died again today, moving snow.

I have it in the shop and only checked the spark..... ....NOTHING!

I "had" changed the condenser "back" to the origional, and made some insulated washers for the grounding lug. Like I say, she was running GOOD!

1.) How do you test your magneto coil?

2.) What "other" tests can I make to try to fix this.

Looked on Ebay..... ....but that REALLY bothers me as I might just be buying more trouble buying a "used" on from there.

Any help greatly appreciated!

I have time to work on it tomorrow.

THANKS!

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DARDAN

01-07-2008 10:53:36




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 Re: Magneto trouble again! in reply to Pete S, 01-04-2008 13:27:17  
I've been messing with and canibalizing Fairbanks and Wico mags on WCs, Bs, Cs, and WDs since the '60s. I've chased ghosts and intermitant problems many times. The reality is that I have never found a bad coil. Or weak magnet. They must be rare.

What I have found is faulty wires (inside and outside the mag); loose, broken, poor connections, or shorted to ground.

But nearly allways the real problem has been with the points and/or the condenser. Imperfect points or a flakey condenser can drive you nuts. I've dressed the points with a piece of gravel out of despiration and they worked for years, and I've had new points that just would not work fresh out of the box. A little dirt, pits or oxide on the faces of the points cause enough resistance to mess things up. I've had fresh new condensers that were dead on arrival, flaky when hot, and some flaky when cold. Same thing can happen with battery ignition! Mags may be a little more sensitive, or more neglected. Don't let them intimidate you, they are not that much different from battery ignition.

As far as dependability goes, there is a reason why mags were used on general aviation engines. And yes, they are the same units, with the aviation mags having radio interference shielding added.

Nearly all ignitions have problems when wet, whether it be from sweat, rain, snow, or a wash job.

For me it seems like the points from NAPA are more dependable, condensers have been the same from wherever.

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Banned from this forum

01-07-2008 16:08:41




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 Re: Magneto trouble again! in reply to DARDAN, 01-07-2008 10:53:36  
Really???? You never found a bad tar coil in an FMJ4B3 and you been doing this since the 60's???

I wish I had your luck!



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stu (ON)

01-07-2008 16:57:01




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 Re: Magneto trouble again! in reply to Banned from this forum, 01-07-2008 16:08:41  
third party image

Me too. Tar paper FMJ4B3 coils will stop you dead in your tracks.



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dobber

01-06-2008 11:18:43




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 Re: Magneto trouble again! in reply to Pete S, 01-04-2008 13:27:17  
Aftermarket coils are available for less for most later FM or Wico mags. New parts available for Wico C & XH and FM J & X mags so no need to be butchering them all up or just find a battery distributor instead if you don't understand mags. Is the metal gear timed to the dist rotor gear properly? If it's a old tape wound coil maybe moisture got in it? A FM coil should be no more than 4000-5000 ohms max between the points wire and output in center of coil (max secondary resistance). Between points wire and metal center core ground .5 to .8 ohms (max primary resistance). If no reading on either coil is bad and open circuit. You can try drying out a tape wound coil with hair dryer and checking it again and revarnish it. Is the impulse tripping over too with good spring snap? Clean and set points at .015" A Wico is same point setting and 6000-8000 ohms sec max and 1.2-1.5 ohms primary max.

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Pete S

01-06-2008 18:52:29




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 Re: Magneto trouble again! in reply to dobber, 01-06-2008 11:18:43  
Hey thanks!

I worked my butt off to try to find a timing mark on my perticular tractor, but was not able to so I simply utilized the old, finger over the spark plug hole thing.

The problem was that the "metal" sproket on the shaft would not be in the proper position when I "felt" the engine was TDC.

The tractor was running wonderfully when it died, so did it jump timing???

I set the engine at TDC, and removed the mag. I'm anticipating that it should go back together fine when I get this mag figured out.

In the vice, I spun the mag and got a very almost non-existant spark, then it went away, then came back..... ...darn.

The magnet on one side of the rotor "seemed" weak. Here are the readings I got on my coil:

Between point wire and center lug on the 20K setting was 3.75

Between the coil ground and the point wire on the 2000K setting ran from 400+-1000+ (?)It fluctuated while I held the leads in place.

I'm anticipating needing a used or re-built unit, as I'm just sluggin' away and don't know much.

Thanks,
Pete

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dobber

01-06-2008 23:05:53




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 Re: Magneto trouble again! in reply to Pete S, 01-06-2008 18:52:29  
If the bearings are bad and any drag of the magnetic rotor at all you are going to get erratic firing like that also. Is it the FM mag? Those fibre gears are there for a reason so to strip and not tear engine up but do get old and teeth stip out on those and bushings for the shafts wear out too. Those coil specs are just something to go by and should be taken with all coil lead unhooked from points and anything over those or no readings at all suspect a bad coil. It could pass with those readings and still be bad as only good way to test a magneto coil is on a special tester made for such that also does a heat load and breakdown test. Coil windings inside may seem okay and fire when cold but when things get warmer heating up expanding the insulation between windings or windings themselves can fail by shorting out but then when retracting cold again still fire.

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jeffalex2

01-06-2008 03:46:16




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 Re: Magneto trouble again! in reply to Pete S, 01-04-2008 13:27:17  
I sent my mag to this outfit, they rebuilt and sent back to me. No probs for the last 3yrs...

http://www.mainelymagnetos.com/default.htm



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NE IA

01-05-2008 19:19:31




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 Re: Magneto trouble again! in reply to Pete S, 01-04-2008 13:27:17  
This may help, otherwise you can simply ignore. My Ex wife doesn'tlive here anymore so cleaning the shop is my own problem. now it doesn't get cleaned so often and tractors must sit outside. I just wrap a garbage bag over the mags, tuck them in behind and leave them there even when running. I have eliminated most of the mag problems it seems.

If anyone has moisture problems there is a product called wire dry that works as good as the weight loss comercials say their products work. I would do a comercial for them even.

I had a Ford 4 x 4 w/ snow plow and a 400 engine. Sometimes after a couple hrs of plowing I would get into the wind and drifts just right and it was as if you shut the key off. I would pop the hood and spray the distributor and it would fire off and not miss a beat. I haven't bought any for probably ten years, so I hope they still make it.

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JMS/.MN

01-04-2008 18:09:20




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 Re: Magneto trouble again! in reply to Pete S, 01-04-2008 13:27:17  
Moving snow? Maybe it just got wet from snow melting on it. FYI- if it is really a WD45, it should have a distributor setup, not a magneto. Much more dependable starting system.



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El Toro

01-04-2008 14:40:44




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 Re: Magneto trouble again! in reply to Pete S, 01-04-2008 13:27:17  
third party image

Let me try that picture again. Hal



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El Toro

01-04-2008 14:38:33




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 Re: Magneto trouble again! in reply to Pete S, 01-04-2008 13:27:17  
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I would clean those points with some 320 wet or dry to see if that solves your problem. If that
doesn't you may need to check the magnets for magnetism. Take a flatblade screwdiver and touch them. They should attract it with a lot of effort. They're what creates your spark when they pass by the coil. You can convert your mag to a distributor if its the coil. You can install an auto type coil for about $15.00 from NAPA. Then run battery voltage to the coil and to the points in the mag. Disconnect the mag's coil wire at the points. Disconnect the grounding wire on the mag too. You will need an ignition swith too. Here's a pic of a mag conversion. Hal

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Bob Bancroft

01-04-2008 13:43:08




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 Re: Magneto trouble again! in reply to Pete S, 01-04-2008 13:27:17  
Magneto on a WD45?? They all came factory new with batt.ign. Maybe you have a WD? Someone with a plain old coil tester can hook up to the mag. coil and see if it will jump a spark like any other coil. My problem is usually the points. I have a spare mag. but you're probably halfway across the country! I'm in central NY state.



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