Posted by JD Seller on July 26, 2013 at 19:42:07 from (208.126.196.144):
After reading all of the posts about sub panels and the grounding issues I took some time today to check the panels around the farm. It was time to clean them out anyway. I usually take the covers off once each year and use compressed air to blow all the crap out of them.
All of the sub panels but one have ground rods right by them. All within 3-4 feet of the panel. So I have the sub panels hooked up just like the main service box is hooked. Meaning the neutral and bare grounds are hooked to the same bar inside. There is a bare ground hooked to the bar an out to a copper ground stake at all the panels but one. At the supply end at the main service box they are hooked the same way.
My thinking is that with an earth ground right there that there is no way to get the ground loop issues that you are talking about if you hook the neutral and ground on a sub panel that does not have an earth ground going to a stake.
Now the one that is different. First off it has been installed like it is for 28 years. LOL No issues YET. It is a 100 amp Main service box I took out of a house we remodeled and put in a 200 amp service. Since it was a real good Square D box that had eight separate breakers I used it when I wired the cattle shed. This box has no other way but for the neutral and earth ground to hooked to the same bar. The trouble with this box is its location. It sets on the shed right where there is a bluff rock under it. The concrete is only a few inches thick in places right where it is at. So there is zero way to drive a ground rod.
Now why it maybe never caused any issues. I had some hogs killed many years ago when an electric heater shorted out and electrocuted about 10 sows a week before they where to pig. Just about got me when I went to see what had happened. The shorted out heater had the entire fence electrified. Since that happened I have an earth ground at every waterer that has an electric heater in it. Not just hooked to the water line I mean a 10 foot copper ground rod. So this box had eight waterers on it that have earth ground stakes. All the bare grounds are hooked to these ground stakes. The neutrals are run back to the box and hooked like a main service would be. The bare grounds are hooked to the ground stake at the waterers and to the ground bar in the sub panel box. Would all of these be a replacement for a normal ground stake that would be at the sub panel???
Kind of got me worried thinking about it. There are over 700 fat cattle in that shed and yards. That is some serious money to have an electrical issue cause a problem. Before I came to the house I shut that sub panel off at the main service until I get an answer that relieves my concerns. My electrician friend is on vacation this week so I can't reach him until Monday. He has looked at this box and never said anything about the grounds/neutral bar issue.
So am I worrying about nothing or do I need to replace the box with one that has a separate ground and neutral bar in it???
I have seen those separate ground bars you just fasten with some screws in the box over at the side of everything. I guess I could install one of these and move all the earth grounds to it and separate the neutrals at the box. It would be some work because some of the wires would not be long enought to reach a different bar.
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