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Discussion Board - Beef Farm

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'49 Farmall

02-21-2005 06:40:21




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Is growing beef a profitable operation? I am thinking of a herd size of around 100+ steers, and maybe selling 50 or 60 in the fall and bringing the other young ones in for the winter months (Northeast location). Should more be sold or will this number bring in enough money? This seems like a better operation for a single operator than dairy since the herd will be on the pasture 24/7 from April through around November leaving more free time and nothing to do with the twice a day cleanup/feeding/milking. I was thinking of buying a dairy farm with a freestall barn for winter housing and using one side of the barn for the young stock, and the other for the steers that would be sold in the coming fall. How many acres of pasture are needed to house this many animals? Should it be divided into paddocks, and how many acres should each paddock be? As far as winter feed, it corn silage or haylage better for quality beef, or is a combination the way to go? Should grain also be added in to the daily rations too? What are some choice breeds of beef producers? I currently work on a beef/hobby farm that has 20 head and was wondering if a large beef farm is profitable and could be operated by one person. Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Tom

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HobbyFarmerInWI

02-25-2005 03:25:05




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 Re: Beef Farm in reply to '49 Farmall, 02-21-2005 06:40:21  
We are doing exactly what you are thinking about. We buy Holstine bull calves at about 3 days old and put them in pens on one side of our old dairy barn. After they are weaned, we group them in pens on the other side, and then in the summer we put them on pasture. In the winter, we put them on hay. I have 40 acres. We rent 30 acres as crop ground and use that money to buy hay for the winter. I will raise them to around 500 lbs and then sell them.

We make a bit of money on each one, so it becomes a number game. We start to buy calves in late March and stop in July. A total of 20 calves will go though our place in a summer.

As for equipment, we have a tractor and loader. We haul manure out by hand, and compost it. Then will let people take it for free.

It works for us.

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'49 Farmall

02-26-2005 09:01:39




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 Re: Beef Farm in reply to HobbyFarmerInWI, 02-25-2005 03:25:05  
That's what i'm looking to do...just on a larger scale. I guess there is some hope out there for an operation like this.

Tom



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'49 Farmall

02-23-2005 19:46:28




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 Re: Beef Farm in reply to '49 Farmall, 02-21-2005 06:40:21  
Ok...I guess I need to clarify a few things... First with the dairy farm idea. The idea to use a freestall dairy farm was based solely on winter housing. I figured a freestall is healthier for the animals than say tiestall or stanchion barns. Unlike what Oliver said, we have farms here that 100-200 acres left for pasture alone besides the cropland which I would think is more than enough if it is quality for around 100 head. As you also said Oliver, I must not have alot of experience in agriculture, and you are correct, I have only worked at this farm for a little over 2 years, but I am there almost every other day learning. I also go to college full time and have another job. This is why I ask these questions, as I understand beef operations are different across the country. In the Northeast, herds aren't left outside in the winter, whereas maybe in Texas they are. Maybe my questions are dumb, but I am just trying to get some answers from experienced people who have "been there and done that." I'm sorry if I am wasting everyone's time. Thank you

Tom

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VaSlim

02-23-2005 20:32:58




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 Re: Beef Farm in reply to '49 Farmall, 02-23-2005 19:46:28  
You aren't wasting anyone's time. Experience is the best teacher but the tuition isn't cheap. Asking "dumb" questions is how you get ahead of the class. Take what you can use from here but also pick the brain of your local extension agent. They don't have all the answers either and some that they do have are going to be wrong.

But be skeptical not cynical. Like if I said your beef herd is going to be healthier kept outside than in any kind of shelter. That may not be a fact but it could be a probability and is definitely a possibility. Don't discard but do check it out.

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Oliver

02-23-2005 12:25:29




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 Re: Beef Farm in reply to '49 Farmall, 02-21-2005 06:40:21  
Judging by the questions you ask, I think the overall answer to the profitability question is no, it most likely won’t be profitable. You say you are thinking about buying a dairy farm. That makes me think the farm is structured for dairy cattle. Dairy is a much different operation than beef. A dairy farm usually has a pretty small amount of land dedicated to pasture and also a small amount dedicated to hay. Feed for dairy cattle is much different than feed for beef animals. The amount of land needed to carry a cow varies hugely, depending on the area of the country. If you work in agriculture now you should know this. If you work much in agriculture at all you should know the no one can answer your questions without knowing a whole lot more of the facts. All these things lead me to believe that you currently don’t have much agriculture experience. The time was, when a person who was willing to work hard could make a living farming. Those times have long passed. To be profitable now a farmer must have a wealth of knowledge. Knowledge not unlike what one would get from a degree in agriculture. A person who thinks they can make a living today in agriculture just based on hard work is uninformed. I suspect that you will find it very difficult to borrow money for the operation you are suggesting. Banks know how difficult it is to turn a profit in agriculture and therefore are very selective in who they loan money too. A person just getting started will have to demonstrate a high degree of knowledge before a bank will even consider their loan application. It’s way too easy to loose money and the banks don’t like the gamble. You will have to have a detailed farm and financial plan, proving the soundness of your idea to even get a serious appointment to talk to a banker. If it were easy farm numbers would be growing instead of rapidly declining.

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Chuck MI

02-21-2005 17:25:33




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 Re: Beef Farm in reply to '49 Farmall, 02-21-2005 06:40:21  
This is a subject I have pondered from time to time. Define profitable. Are you looking to "get rich", then NO. Are you looking to semi-retire and justify having some land and tractors to play with, then most likely yes.

As for as pasture and paddocks are concerned, do some research at ATTRA. They have some good stuff on grass farming and beef. Also consider you winter feed, and weather or not you'd be better off with a diet based on hay. There is a large movement for 'pasture raised' meat products, which draws some of the added value of organic without going to those extremes.

Return on investment: Are you taking a loan out? If so you'll be paying interest. If you're paying in cash, are you expecting a return, or just land value appreciation. Don't forget equipment.

Look real hard at your 20 head herd, budget it out and see if you'll be happy with the returns.

Chuck

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Chuck MI

02-21-2005 17:27:14




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 Re: Beef Farm in reply to Chuck MI, 02-21-2005 17:25:33  
Eat Wild: Benifits of pasture raised meats.



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kyhayman

02-21-2005 15:34:50




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 Re: Beef Farm in reply to '49 Farmall, 02-21-2005 06:40:21  
Paul is right, not way to cover all the aspects in a few paragraphs. I cant make money on steers, not to be worth the time it takes. Down side is risk of price drops (buy in the spring and sell in the fall puts you on the wrong side of the price spread), death loss is a huge risk (one bad case of BRD and it spreads to 1/2 the others and you lose big). I always liked cows better, lower death loss, calves to sell. I bought thin broken mouthed head cows in the fall, ran them on stockpiled grass, rough hay, and distillery slop all winter. Sold the open ones as weigh cows in the spring (right side of the price spread) and the ones with calves as cow calf pairs to go out on grass. Made a lot of money for a long time doing that. Overhead has been too high since 2000 for me to do it, not enough good thin cows on the market in the fall. As we start to see Canadian cattle coming in and start in the down side of the price cycle should be some more opportunities.

With steers, if you buy 5 weights in the spring for $1.10 and sell them as 9 weights in the late fall for .80 thats less than $200 gross per head. Take off vet, feed, fence, and death loss that puts you clearing about $100 each. But, if the market breaks and you sell 9 weights for .70 you are down to breaking even and if they fall to the 60's you are in the red. Been there, done that, worked all winter feeding steers and wound up with $11 a head profit to show for it. Also started another year with $50,000 in cattle and my net check at market was $42,300 on a down price break 6 months later.

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paul

02-21-2005 08:01:24




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 Re: Beef Farm in reply to '49 Farmall, 02-21-2005 06:40:21  
What a wide open question. :) A 4 year course wouldn't cover it all, much less a few paragraphs here. :)

With your 20 head start, you might be the best judge at this point on what works for you. You should have good experience for your area.

Hard to go wrong with Angus these days for beef.

Intensive grazing always produces more beef per acre. The ideal is rotating the critters every 3 days or less, & allowing 20-30 days before getting back to a pasture. However just splitting a pasture into 2 or 4 parts sure helps.

--->Paul

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