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O/T Feeder pigs

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Flewster

04-27-2008 12:16:55




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I want to feed out some hogs for family and friends and was wondering what the fair charge would be when I have them butchered..... ..if i use hang weight which value do I use when I go to the farm sites and find market prices for hogs?..... or should I charge a set charge?..... .they pay for butcher of course..... .just some suggestions please. Thank you!!!




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Ron/PA

05-04-2008 06:45:29




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 Re: O/T Feeder pigs in reply to Flewster, 04-27-2008 12:16:55  
Sorry to chime in so late but I just saw the post.

I raise 15 per cycle, and now just one cycle per year.
I custom raise for folks who understand that my hogs are sold on a cost plus basis. I base my prices on the current feed price at my local mill, even though I raise my own corn and have it custom ground. This comes out very close to the same numbers I'd use if I had the hogs buy my corn to make into feed. As you can see, I don't save alot by raising my own corn.

Here are some figures from my 2007 batch of hogs. Which was only 13 hogs.

Grow cycle, 150 days

Average start weight, 32 Lbs.

Average butcher weight, 269 Lbs.

Average Lbs. of ground feed / Hog 931 Lbs. (Excluding greens and garden stuff.)

Average Lbs. of feed / Average Lbs. per hog. (feed conversion) 3.47 Lbs.

My cost per Lb. to produce 60¢

Total cost per hog. $161.68

Total Lbs. of feed fed. 12,100

I have a gravity feeder which makes feed available at all times to the hogs, I also feed as many greens and veggies as they want, which is a lot.

My customers are folks who want a fairly lean cut of pork, but not the dry super healthy cuts from the grocery store, nor do they want a total fat hog slathered in lard.
They know I don't ad any unecessary additives to my feed, but will use what ever is needed to maintain the health of my hogs.
They buy the hogs at my price, I transport them to the butcher, and they deal with the butcher, paying all costs and do their own pick up of the meat.

If it would help, I'd be glad to e-mail my spread sheet of my costs for last year.

Have fun in hogging.

Ron

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Joe in IN

05-04-2008 19:11:48




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 Re: O/T Feeder pigs in reply to Ron/PA, 05-04-2008 06:45:29  
I would be interested in seeing your costs. This is my first try with pigs. Raising 3, 1 for me and two for people from work. We are splitting food 3 ways and they are supposed to throw me an extra 30 or 40 for caring for their hog.

Only had them 3 weeks and they have gone from roughly 9 lbs to 30 lbs or so... I am looking to raise for individuals, obviously selling for market is a big loser...

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flying belgian

05-03-2008 20:26:45




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 Re: O/T Feeder pigs in reply to Flewster, 04-27-2008 12:16:55  
When I was raising hogs a hundred years ago they used to figure it took 10 bushels of corn and a hundred lbs. of meal to get a hog to market. Is that what they still figure?



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Flewster

05-01-2008 06:14:52




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 Re: O/T Feeder pigs in reply to Flewster, 04-27-2008 12:16:55  
Thanks for all the replies..... ....I picked up my hogs yesterday and got a deal on them..... ..was wanting $32 a piece I got them for $25 as they were mixed sizes..... ..Should I seperate them out based on size or let them all run together?..... 5 are around 35-40 pounds and 5 are around 20-25 pounds..... ..last year when i had only 3 one was smaller and never did perform as well as the other two did and ended up about 40-50 pounds lighter at butcher..... ...

I agree with you Shawn in that we need to get more family farms in the profit zone and take the money away from the middle man..... ...we (family farms) do this by using our local packing houses and selling direct to the customers..... ...we provide a better quality product at a competitive price..... ...why in the world should we let the wal-marts and cosco's of our country pay our farmer 36 cents a pound for a product they sell for $2.99 a pound?..... ....This time I am going to use a state inspected processor and possiably sell meat by the cut..... .KS allows me to do this but only if I use a state inspected processor..... ....I have 4 of the ten spoken for and if the one guilt performs well I might keep her back to breed and raise my own stock..... ....

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shawnspeed3

05-01-2008 18:23:54




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 Re: O/T Feeder pigs in reply to Flewster, 05-01-2008 06:14:52  
I would probably split them in 2 groups if yoy have the option , for exactly the reason stated above, they won't compete with their larger penmates. As far as buy the cut sales , if you can do it I would. here in MI you have to have a retail licence and the animal must go thru a usda inspected facility. Until recintly , the closest one was over 50 mi one way, but we have new owners at a local facility , and they stepped up and are now doing inspected kills 3 times a week ...I aam now looking at the sales licence....Good luck Shawn

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JoshuaGA

04-28-2008 10:46:38




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 Re: O/T Feeder pigs in reply to Flewster, 04-27-2008 12:16:55  
Shawn, could you explain a little more about how you market your hogs. #s per year, breed, etc. Thinking about getting back into hogs myself, but nothing is settled. Thanks

JoshuaGA



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Flewster

04-28-2008 10:28:58




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 Re: O/T Feeder pigs in reply to Flewster, 04-27-2008 12:16:55  
My main goal was to raise 2 for my family and then sell a few and maybe keep two good looking guilts back to breed so have my own next year to bring cost down as I am paying 30 each for the feeders. Did this last year and had 3 sold two at .65/lb hang weight..... .I thought I was reading the markets right but could have been wrong..... .should i sell by live weight or hang weight?..... I know i probably won't make much if any money on this venture but love to raise hogs as growing up we had about a 30 head operation..... ..paid alot of morgage back then untill the big coorps got into it and crashed the market for the small guy..... .I enjoy hogs and want to start a small herd of my own to sell feeders and finished hogs to family, friends and neighbors to give them a better quality meat than they can get in the store..... .

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Illinois Farmall

04-27-2008 18:17:16




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 Re: O/T Feeder pigs in reply to Flewster, 04-27-2008 12:16:55  
Hopefully you"re doing this because you enjoy it and not with the hope of making money. I had the same idea last fall with the hope of making a few bucks on 15 head of feeders. Currently I"m $300+ in the hole on feed alone and have 2 left to sell. Being an honest person I couldn"t ask more than market price which meant I"m getting $80 - $90 a head. I enjoyed doing it but CFO (wife) says no more. There a reason hog operations are few and far between.

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Keith in NW MO

04-28-2008 07:31:02




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 Re: O/T Feeder pigs in reply to Illinois Farmall, 04-27-2008 18:17:16  
"Being an honest person I couldn"t ask more than market price which meant I"m getting $80 - $90 a head."

The folks you are selling to being honest people should give you retail price. The market doesn't even exist in reality anymore, you need to worry about right and wrong. Your honesty doesent have any bearing on selling those folks meat other than you sell them what they want. You are doing them a favor yet you desire to lose money. Your comments puzzle me, I respect your honesty dont get me wrong.

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James22

04-28-2008 14:39:44




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 Re: O/T Feeder pigs in reply to Keith in NW MO, 04-28-2008 07:31:02  
I assume if someone is selling at or near retail, shouldn't they be paying for processing? Shawnspeed3 appears to be asking retail and expecting the buyer to pay processing. In my opinion that is not a good value for the purchaser, but if he can find buyers at that price it is certainly a good deal for him. Dad always sold our cattle/hogs to individual buyers at posted market price. Didn't make a great living, but always had repeat customers and didn't have to suffer the general "screwings" that the packers freely passed around to smaller producers. I wouldn't quibble with a nickle or dime above market, but unless the meat has some other value added quality, such as as organic which requires significantly more input/manangement, my reaction would be a resounding no-thank-you and would look elsewhere.

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Keith in NW MO

04-28-2008 18:48:11




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 Re: O/T Feeder pigs in reply to James22, 04-28-2008 14:39:44  
Ya my dad did many thing that in the past made money that doesn't now. One pound of Bacon is $4 per pound if you subtract processing what does that equal. Why do you want a farmer to do something for nothing but its ok for the processor and retailer to make a hugh profit. Its always ok if a company makes money but the guy down the road thats different. He deserves aleast retail minus processing for the hog.
Just out of curiosity what does everyone think retail value of a processed hog be worth?

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shawnspeed3

05-01-2008 05:50:20




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 Re: O/T Feeder pigs in reply to Keith in NW MO, 04-28-2008 18:48:11  
I base my price on the cheapest cut I find at the supermarket, which this spring was 1.99 lb for porks steak on sale and work back from there. Also my price includes kill fees and trucking to the butcher,(Butcher charges 30 for a kill+Trucking) all they pay is cut wrap & smoke. a 225 lb hog at 70% dress would be 157lb, or 1.79(1.25 x225/70%) lb + cut and wrap butcher charges 85 bucks for a hog that size (37 cLB)+ 55 cents lb for any smoke , unsmoked cost of my pork in the freezer is 2.16 lb..... loin , pork roast ect. Pork loin ,chops and sausage are all above 2.50 lb around here and good bacon & hams are 3.25 and above.....also my operation is supporting the local economy, and my customers like that , they can call somebody that actually will ansewer their questions and concerns, my feed is grown locally , ground locally , the animals are processed locally. I just try and provide quality products at a competitive price as compared to the grocry store.I also sell eggs for 2.50 a dzn and have a neighbor who sells for 4 a dzn , (his are organic) he sells 100dzn a week, I sell 24, we use the same feed , I am not certifed, he is , does that really justify the cost difference????I don't begrudge him for making the extra , but I am learning from him how to market ,and make the middlemans margin, as we all should , so there will be family farms in the future.

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shawnspeed3

04-27-2008 17:57:08




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 Re: O/T Feeder pigs in reply to Flewster, 04-27-2008 12:16:55  
Sell mine live wt. by the lb , they pay for cut&wrap, My price this spring is 1.25 LB....Not cheap , but cheaper than the grocery store ,but enough to keep me doing it.....Good luck Shawn



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JMS/.MN

04-28-2008 18:31:30




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 Re: O/T Feeder pigs in reply to shawnspeed3, 04-27-2008 17:57:08  
At $1.25 per pound, live weight, you are demanding over three times current market price for live weight. Current market is about 36 cents per pound. Must be some gullible people who think that all store meat is pumped full of hormones, steroids, antibiotics, etc....



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shawnspeed3

04-28-2008 19:47:21




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 Re: O/T Feeder pigs in reply to JMS/.MN, 04-28-2008 18:31:30  
I ask 1.25 lb. , not demand it, and I do not sell hundreds of hogs a year,usually I sell under 20 or whatever my 2 sows will farrow on 1 freshining a year. My customers have been buying from me for over 10 years , and many times I do not have enough pigs to sell,but I have no desire to get bigger . I am comfortable with the numbers of stock I run and my ability to care for them . I do not have a desire to gouge anybody , with my small numbers of stock , I get no Volume discounts on anything, so I end up paying more. I also try to stay away from GMO crops , that also means I pay more for feed ,( About 3 times more)than the market hog farmer that is getting 36 cents a lb. and feeding GMO's . I guess ,I made my market niche , and am filling it , My customers rave about my pork,and return every year to buy pork and other farm products , and it all pays for the farm. It is about providing Quality product , and being a price maker , not a price taker. to qoute Joel Salatan. I am not getting rich farming, but it is paying for itself, and my wife and I enjoy the lifestyle,but If it didn't pay , we could not continue doing it, and niether should you. with todays input cost you couldn't possibly break even at 36 cents a pound with 6 dollar corn and 14 dollar beans, feeding a 15% ration , Feed would cost 14-16 dollars a hundered,at 14 a hundred for feed , 800 lb to get the hog to 225 lb would cost 112 bucks, then you sell it for 36 cents a lb or 81 dollars , for a loss of 31 bucks, if my math is correct. nobody could sustain those losses for long, and they shouldn't have to. If they don't want to pay , they can go to wally world and buy the gass packaged meat that is ussually bad when you buy it for 2.99 a lb... Rant over

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Joe in IN

04-28-2008 19:22:39




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 Re: O/T Feeder pigs in reply to JMS/.MN, 04-28-2008 18:31:30  
Average person has no idea where to get a hog for that price. Further, how would they get it from auction to butcher? Put it in the minivan?

If he is charging 1.25 and let's say it is $0.75(250 * .75 = 187.5, reasonable to me) a lb for butchering/curing... So $2 a lb(live weight) for meat. That is sausage, ham, loins, bacon...

Is bacon, pork chops, bacon, ribs etc over or under $2 a lb...

Seems like a 'happy hog' not in confinement, sees the sun, roots around in grass, or whatever marketing ploy you use and still sell to consumer, packaged and frozen for $2lb(live weight) or about 2.85lb if yield is 70%. You been to grocery to price meat lately? BTW. Beef is not $0.88 a lb either....

Selling hogs at market is a money losing proposition. while 1.25 might be high, 80 cents or so seems entirely reasonable(to me), would save the consumer money and provide profit for the farmer...

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Joe in IN

04-28-2008 08:46:32




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 Re: O/T Feeder pigs in reply to shawnspeed3, 04-27-2008 17:57:08  
Interesting... how many you sell a year....

Given the increased price of everything, I was thinking of ways to sell direct. Why have the Packingplant/grocery store make the money. Pay a butcher and sell from home off the hoof. Like what you are doing.



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JMS/.MN

04-27-2008 16:05:10




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 Re: O/T Feeder pigs in reply to Flewster, 04-27-2008 12:16:55  
Hanging weight of a market hog is about 70 per cent of its live weight. Can use that to estimate live weight if no scale was available before butchering. Hanging weight on beef is about 60 per cent. Pkg weight is a bunch less, depends on how much de-boning, etc.



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boilerjoe_96

04-27-2008 15:32:36




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 Re: O/T Feeder pigs in reply to Flewster, 04-27-2008 12:16:55  
Selling pigs at market waeight is a sure fire way to lose money. You will have more in feed than you get....

I am currently raising 2 pigs for others and 1 for my own. they were all the same age, so we are splitting food charge 3 ways and then they are giving me 30 or 40 dollars for the effort...

Current market price is $39 cwt..assume a 250lb hog and $40 market price. That means market price is $100 for a hog... You will have $100-$130 in food in it....(depnding on how big the pig is when you gotit...)

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