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Manure to replace reg fertilizer ...???

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Clefus

03-11-2008 19:13:16




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Due to to price of fertilizer I was thinking of pounding a lot of cattle manure on and cutting back on the reg fertilizer....

Is this a crazy idea?? or what would be some reccomendations.....

I have access to plenty of a neigbors manure along with my own ...I was going to apply it thick, turn in then apply a lower number fertilizer to the row...usually use 19-19-19....but cut back to a cheaper mix....

I only raise enough corn to supplement / finish a small amount of beef cattle so this is small scale....

Thanks

Dave

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Bill(Wis)

03-15-2008 11:33:00




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 Re: Manure to replace reg fertilizer ...??? in reply to Clefus, 03-11-2008 19:13:16  
Do you plan to get a rotation going eventually? Alfalfa would be a good choice as it will leave N in the soil for corn following.



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Clefus

03-15-2008 14:43:53




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 Re: Manure to replace reg fertilizer ...??? in reply to Bill(Wis), 03-15-2008 11:33:00  
Yes that is the plan.....corn then into alfalfa mix or I already have some clover/timothy mix going.....

Other farms I have use of have been farmed not long ago but I'm trying to rehab this one place first...the others I just cut the existing hay for now but will turn them over into rotation in a year or two...



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johns48jdb

03-15-2008 04:14:24




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 Re: Manure to replace reg fertilizer ...??? in reply to Clefus, 03-11-2008 19:13:16  
years ago everybody was having chicken litter spread on their farms. the guy did it for free, just to get rid of it. next year everywhere he spread the manue there was the prettiest stand of yellow weeds you ever saw. not native to this area at all. spread to peoples yards and other fields. 24d killed it ease enough but it was constly. be sure any manure you spread has been composted good before you use it.

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Jared M

03-14-2008 17:57:40




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 Re: Manure to replace reg fertilizer ...??? in reply to Clefus, 03-11-2008 19:13:16  
Check out the Ohio Livestock Manure Management Guide through ohioline.osu.edu just click the bubble that says Farm and search "manure." It has charts that factor in bedding, feed, size, manure storage, etc. and has the average nutrients for them in lbs/ton. Hope this helps. Jared



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Clefus

03-13-2008 03:24:53




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 Re: Manure to replace reg fertilizer ...??? in reply to Clefus, 03-11-2008 19:13:16  
Thanks Paul

The 19-19-19 was in previous years with NO manure ....just lime...

Some of the virgin ground I put in hay / pasture the first year.....

I get what you guys are saying....I did check on PSU 's agronomy guide and they had a little chart which was helpful....

I was initially wondering if the manure contributed enough if heavy to significantly cut down on fertilizer ....seems it can.....

Thanks again..

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paul

03-13-2008 06:34:09




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 Re: Manure to replace reg fertilizer ...??? in reply to Clefus, 03-13-2008 03:24:53  
The simple answer is yes it can.

Doing so profitably (you listed saving money as your reason for doing this) is a lot more complicated, but well worth studying out! :)

Don't know what your soil tests at right now, so - a guess.

Corn - don't know what you hope to yield, so - a guess.

Needed P & K: Your corn will like close to 50 lbs of each per acre. Depends a little on how much yield you want, and of course how much is in your soil, but applying more than 50 lbs of each could be wasteful. Often manure will get the P built up in your soil, need to watch out for too much of that from manure.

N - the corn needs around 1 lb of N available for every bu of corn you hope to harvest (some say .6 lb, some feel 1.2 lb - this is not an exact science yet...). So, 150 bu yield, you need 150 lbs of N per acre. However, if you had soybeans the previous year, you can assume there is 40 lbs already there, only needing 110 added. Or if you had an alfalfa field, you can asume 100-150 lbs is already there.

Making it more complicated, if you apply 100 lbs worth of N per acre as manure, probably only 50 lbs will be available to your corn this year, and 25% or so the following year....

But, it's well worth figuring out all these numbers, and getting closer to what your corn needs.

You know we often need to add sulfur now to the soil? Thanks to EPA - they cleaned up our air with anti-smog rules which is good for breathing - but now we are short on sulfur in nature, and need to add it, esp for corn. Soil test will help you know if you need it or not.

Manure will actually make soil ph go down a bit, that is something to consider if you need lime, esp if you plan a heavy application.

--->Paul

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paul

03-13-2008 00:15:47




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 Re: Manure to replace reg fertilizer ...??? in reply to Clefus, 03-11-2008 19:13:16  
Typically you can get enough P & K on the ground from manure, and will need to add more N.

It all depends how much you apply, & of what kind of manure, but I think using a 19-19-19 after the manure would be a poor use of funds.

Previous crop makes a big difference too, if beans or alfalfa need much less N - but alfalfa coulda sucked a whole lot of P & K out of your ground..... It all makes a difference, all inter related.

If the point is to save money, figure out what you are applying with the manure, figure out what your crop needs for the year, and then only add what is missing with commercial fertilizer.

Manure adds some stuff that you don't get out of a bag, so it will be good for your crops, for several years. Also, some of the nutrients it has are slow release, and will be around for the next 2 years - but not totally available the first year.

You can talk with your local extension person, or look up manure application on many of the state extention web sites (I just typed in 'cattle manure application' in google and got several good looking hits...), and get a general feel of what you need for what you are doing. You can compare the type of manure and your crop yeilds to their charts & figure out how much manure & what will still be missing. It's too many variables & numbers to cover every possibility here. The govt does have good info on this, for a change. Use their info. :)

Probably more detail than you care for for just a couple of acres, but as long as you are asking about it..... ;)

--->Paul

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Clefus

03-12-2008 16:20:45




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 Re: Manure to replace reg fertilizer ...??? in reply to Clefus, 03-11-2008 19:13:16  
Thanks

The cattle manure is from the neighbors barn area...beef cattle...not really any bedding

I dont produce that much....he has 60-70 head of Angus...only a half mile haul...and free..

I am trying to rehab the father in laws farm because it was stripped 30 years ago and only ever brush hogged .....I am planting different sections each year with corn first then to be used as hayfields....some of the ground could use organic matter badly...I was going to test the ground before adding the manure to gett a better idea of what it would need after manure incorporation....

I cut hay on other farms to bring in and feed so I am adding this to the place to build the soil....

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JMS/.MN

03-12-2008 14:12:59




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 Re: Manure to replace reg fertilizer ...??? in reply to Clefus, 03-11-2008 19:13:16  
Every crop takes nutrients out of the soil. To know what to apply and how much- you need to know two things. 1- existing level of fertility, as determined by a soil test. 2-yield goal of the crop, which determines total plant food requirements. The difference is what you need to apply, so, if using manure, you need to know what type of manure is applied, and yes, it varies in composition, as well as type of application- ie- surface applied or incorporated while applied. (Surface applied manure N, most evaporates.) just like going to a fertilizer plant and having them mix what you need. To rely on a mix that your neighbor tells you about is just as dumb as relying on what someone a few state"s away tells you what he uses. If you have multiple fields, and test each one, you will likely get multiple test results. Your field"s present status reflects previous drawdowns and additions, and every field will vary. Define "thick", define "plenty". Certainly, it works, because manure has real value, but you need real numbers to work with, ie, analysis, and consultation with an agronomist.

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phillip d

03-12-2008 05:15:43




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 Re: Manure to replace reg fertilizer ...??? in reply to Clefus, 03-11-2008 19:13:16  
Like low budget said,it will work just fine.It may be worth your while to add up the expected costs before you jump though.It will take a fair bit of fuel to spread and work in a heavy coat of manure.If you basically have to haul it across the road,you are unable to get any money for yours and you can get the neighbours for free,than it will cash out as a savings to you.We have a 40 acre field 12 miles from our farm for instance.We also have gotten a huge amount of snow here this winter which would have to be blown out twice a week.Also we have been fortunate to have someone buy our manure for $40/tandem load.So we figured we would need 80 loads for the field@ $40 a load is$3200.Then it would cost about $1000 on top of that to haul it.We rent a spreader for quick get it done spring work,so add $700 for 2 days spreadder rental,only one person spreading.Than $200+ for spreader fuel.That's $5100 for a good coat of manure not adding on the 4+days of labour to haul and spread,we wouldn't charge ourselves for the manure of course,but we would be turning away the income.On the other hand,4 ton of 20-10-10 will fertilize the field to sew barley.If for free and very close by,go for it for sure.pd.

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low budget

03-11-2008 20:23:58




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 Re: Manure to replace reg fertilizer ...??? in reply to Clefus, 03-11-2008 19:13:16  
Of course it will work. Much of the N in manure is tied up in organic matter, actually a good thing, because it is slow release that way. However only about half of the N will be available the first year. General rule of thumb is cattle manure has 5-3-6 lbs of N-P-K per ton available the first year.
We usually tried for 20 tons of manure per acre and put 200 lbs of 10-20-10 through the planter.

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JMS/.MN

03-12-2008 14:36:46




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 Re: Manure to replace reg fertilizer ...??? in reply to low budget, 03-11-2008 20:23:58  
I applaud your idea of using real numbers! I don"t know what you mean by "cattle manure", but you may mean pen, stockyard, etc., and the content can vary with the level of bedding. My experience is with liquid manure from a dairy barn, incorporated by a custom pumper who did sample tests while pumping the pit. Always hard to hold him down to 5000 gallons per acre application rate, but would typically provide about 180 pounds of N per acre, always incorporated. I agree that under those conditions, about half is available the first year, and half of what is left, etc. is available the next. Diminishing returns, but we covered all 450 home acres over the years, even when the haul was a mile and a half. Always felt that even liquid manure had some humus benefits. I remember daily hauling before we went to the liquid system, mid MN winters in the 70s- with a D17, really tempting to hit the nearest field.

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36 coupe

03-26-2008 04:01:54




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 Re: Manure to replace reg fertilizer ...??? in reply to JMS/.MN, 03-12-2008 14:36:46  
Around here, manure spread on frozen ground would be lost in spring run off.



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