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Me again can U weld cast with...

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notadeere

02-12-2008 12:29:49

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Hey all i got that 8n mainfold off wasnt just the gasket after all :( Now i have a wire welder can cast be welded with that ? i dont care about looks just if i can weld the crack up & grinde it down good enough for me a new one isnt that spendy 80.oo but thats still 80 more than i want to put into this old ford ( i know the rules fix it right if gonna fix it but its a ford) lol O' & the starter was just the drive teeth so its gonna be cheaper fix there too thank god. but not useing larrys folks preaher to thank him they will send me a bill im sure, again sorry for your headache larry

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Bendee

02-12-2008 20:59:04

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to notadeere, 02-12-2008 12:29:49

Went under low roof with Fordson Major and broke the manifold,v'd it,electric weld with cast rod,all cold..... ...good as gold.
You just don't know if you don't try.

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trucker40

02-12-2008 20:59:01

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to notadeere, 02-12-2008 12:29:49

You can weld it with a mig.What you do is bolt it or tack it to a flat plate after you v it out.As you v it out look at the sparks,if you cant tell a lot of difference between the sparks you see and regular steel that means its cast steel,which you for sure can weld with mig or 7018.Save your money dont buy the cast iron rod or nickel rod.Heat it with a torch to 3 or 400 degrees.Tack it on both ends and weld it with small welds.If its a long crack you might need more tacks.If you use a rod you need to weld it the same way except peen your weld with a chipping hammer.Dont get in a big hurry,but you kind of want it hot as you go.If its a long weld you might want to heat it up a little with the torch before you finish welding it.It could crack,if it does its most likely going to be right next to the weld.If its not too bad grind it out and weld it again.Thats the worst part about it,it might crack.If you get it welded,leave it bolted to the flat surface untill it cools off.Grind off the tacks or unbolt it and it should be allright. I welded the belly pump housing on my H Farmall like that with a mig and then ground and filed the surface flat.It doesnt leak and I have used it on a loader quite a bit.I welded cast like that with 7018 on a Cat loader on the drive wheel and it worked.That time with the 7018 it cracked in a couple of places because I think it was too much stress because of the heat,but it doesnt allways crack then.With a mig it can crack but not as likely.I also welded a long crack in the back housing on the same H tractor with a mig.It took a good 4 hours because it was real thin and overhead.I made a few welds then grind it smooth and look for cracks.About half way it cracked in 2 more places(or it was allready cracked thats when I saw them)I drilled a hole nearly through the cast at the end of all the cracks and finished welding it up.Last I looked it was still holding.That time I also had to grind a bunch of bronze out of it to get the mig to stick.By doing all that grinding I didnt heat it a whole lot with a torch,but I did warm it up a couple of times.You can weld cast with a mig,and it doesnt work too bad.There is cast stuff that you cannot weld with a mig,but so far I havent found any yet.I saw an old Allis Grader that the whole front end was welded on with 7018,and they welded reinforcing plates on with 7018.Dont know who did it or when but it was a long time ago,had 2 different colors of paint on it since then.

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trucker40

02-12-2008 21:15:19

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to trucker40, 02-12-2008 20:59:01

I was watching some show on TV Build it Bigger I think it was called.They were making a dump truck that was so big it was made in pieces(cast pieces)and hauled to the site in Canada.They had a welder there welding the cast frame together,uphill with some real big wire feed gun.He was welding out a v that looked about 3 or 4 inches wide at the top.Inside you could see about three layers of weld,1 inch at the bottom,the maybe 2 side by side passes,then at the top at least 3 side by side passes maybe more,and it was perfect,Said a machine couldnt do it good enough.Plus they had to weld the bed together at the same place,they had a kind of Jig they welded the bed in,dont remember how it was other than wire feed they used to weld that too.You can weld about anything with a mig that you can a stick.I have seen stuff welded with nickel,then machined that looked good.It might not be necessary sometimes.

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135 Fan

02-12-2008 22:44:21

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to trucker40, 02-12-2008 21:15:19

I would bet that the truck frame was a special grade of cast steel to give the maximum strength possible. Often it is easier to have cast for more complex shapes and corners, than using regular steel pieces. For the stress on a big truck like that, that may need repairs, you'd have to use a special type welding wire. It was most likely done with Flux-core for speed and to get the right properties in the weld. Bucyrus had an ad about a month ago in the paper. They were looking for welders for a temporary job. Said they would need them for 2 years to for a dragline project! Lots of Flux-core used to build a walking dragline. Dave

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RodInNS

02-12-2008 20:00:20

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to notadeere, 02-12-2008 12:29:49

I've always had good luck with Ni-Rod. Just preheat it first and then weld it... That said, I would propably opt to buy a new manifold for this unless I needed it ~TODAY~. Ni-Rod isn't cheap either. A pound will run you close to the price quotes you've had on the new manifold.
Brazing is also an option for a quick repair.

Rod

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dave guest

02-12-2008 19:56:02

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to notadeere, 02-12-2008 12:29:49

Only thing I ever did with manifold was braze.

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george md

02-12-2008 19:04:46

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to notadeere, 02-12-2008 12:29:49

Larry, Cast iron is quite repairable if done with o/a torch and cast iron rod , but success is questionable with any kind of arc weld . Below is a before and after repair of the heat valve cover in an SC case dual fuel manifold . Also a link to more repair. george

third party image

more cast iron repair

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T_Bone

02-13-2008 04:52:47

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to george md, 02-12-2008 19:04:46

Hi Larry,

When it comes to welding cast iron, we have a resident expert on the forums and that's George md.

Just go to his website and look around as George has demistrated a great welding ability when it comes to welding cast iron and I sure would listen to him.

You can also research the Tool forum archives for many threads that have been written on cast iron and read Goerge's excellant advice.

I have a fair amount of welding experience but my cast iron welding experience wouldn't hold a candle to what George does. The man is just a freaking artist when it comes to cast. :)

T_Bone

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rusty wheel

02-12-2008 19:01:57

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to notadeere, 02-12-2008 12:29:49

I think the best way to weld your manifold is to clean it as good as you can, then v out the crack and drill a small hole at both ends of the crack to keep the crack from growing. Then pre-heat it with a torch to about 300 degrees. While it's hot, use an ac welder and cast iron rod. When your finished, let it cool slowly...rw

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Tradititonal Farmer

02-12-2008 17:36:03

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to notadeere, 02-12-2008 12:29:49

Buy a new manifold welding them is temporary at best

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jim wise

02-12-2008 17:28:48

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to notadeere, 02-12-2008 12:29:49

I welded the valve seat on my 50 studebaker, its cast block with nickle wire with the mig welder and recut the seat no problems so far jim

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ramtuff

02-12-2008 16:44:10

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to notadeere, 02-12-2008 12:29:49

That's not a bad price if you say it fast.

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fixerupper

02-12-2008 15:40:56

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to notadeere, 02-12-2008 12:29:49

Welding cast is something I am not at all qualified to give advice on, but about thirty years ago I had a good experience with plain old 6011 AC on some cast that this inexperienced weldor could get nothing else to work on.

It was the muffler bracket on a 630 Deere, the one that's part of the radiator top. I had veed it, but did not know enough to pre-heat. Nickel ran off like water, so I used 6011, welding a little at a time and then peening. It's still holding today. Maybe I got lucky. Jim

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notadeere

02-12-2008 14:26:04

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to notadeere, 02-12-2008 12:29:49

Yep you guys are right i talked to a weld shop few miles out he said 40. just to try no gar. i said for 40 ill buy a new one & be done with it. Thanks for the help again & the ideas where to get one cheaper ill get one on way & get it outta my shop so can move in another nice super C or maybe start on that B i been putting off for so long now anyway Thanks again All

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36 coupe

02-13-2008 03:42:16

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to notadeere, 02-12-2008 14:26:04

Fellow who had an exhaust manifold that cost 330.00 new welded his by preheating on a gas grill.After welding he reduced heat slowly to prevent the cracking problem.I have used brazing over the years.Covering the part with lime to prevent fast cooling.Im looking for an old gas grill to preheat parts.I still use charcoal or hardwood scraps for grilling.

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Animal

02-12-2008 14:59:24

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to notadeere, 02-12-2008 14:26:04

I have used wire on a lot of cast, especially exhaust manifolds, since you are going to get one anyway, why not play with it? V it out good and spot one end and then the other, give it quite a bit of time to cool between spots. Sure this time you can get a manifold worth the money but maybe some day you might have the same problem with a Huber, or for that matter a 1085 Massey, this is how you get knowledge.

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old

02-12-2008 13:33:18

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to notadeere, 02-12-2008 12:29:49

Thats a maybe. I have tried it before and some times they work and some times they don't. 8Ns are known for that problem if I where you I would brake down and just spend the $$ and buy a new one. Try this site or or value bilt. I know value bilt has them listed for $50.29 plus shipping

Hobby farm

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Ultradog MN

02-12-2008 13:33:04

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to notadeere, 02-12-2008 12:29:49

You can't weld cast iron with a wire feed welder.
And manifolds in particular are made of a very low grade cast iron and usually don't like to be welded with even the best techniques.
At $48.31 plus shipping from this site for a new one I wouldn't even try to weld it.

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John730D

02-12-2008 13:28:32

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to notadeere, 02-12-2008 12:29:49

Intake or Exhaust?

If intake it can be welded but it takes someone who knows what they are doing. Wire welder-NO! Cast HAS to be preheated to weld.

If exhaust manifold probably not. Most have been too hot for too long and all the carbon in the iron is gone. Nothing to weld.

I am sure there are others on here who will dissagree with me, but I can only speak from my own experience.

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Mike (WA)

02-12-2008 13:03:40

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to notadeere, 02-12-2008 12:29:49

I think you can also weld it with a stick (arc) welder and special rod (nickel rod, maybe? can't remember for sure) But have never heard of doing it with a wire feed. Best bet is to find an old timer with expertise to do it for you for 20 bucks or so.

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Dick L

02-12-2008 12:56:08

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to notadeere, 02-12-2008 12:29:49

The best way to weld cast is with cast rod and a torch.

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jonjon

02-12-2008 16:15:17

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to Dick L, 02-12-2008 12:56:08

also make a special rod for cast. welding supply truck carries them, Super Gold or Super Missle try some I was amazed at how good they hold and how easy they weld.

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Texasmark

02-12-2008 16:17:31

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Re: Me again can U weld cast with... in reply to jonjon, 02-12-2008 16:15:17

I was in the welding store 20 or so years ago and thought I ought to have some around the farm. Haven't used them. Ha!

Mark

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