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OT Vegetable Diesel Opinions

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bm3501466

05-20-2007 12:08:38




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I am filtering and separating water from waste vegetable oil. I have been running it in my diesels mixed with diesel fuel and kerosene. I have been told that if I don't get the glycerine out of the oil that it will damage my injection pumps. On the other hand I have talked to MANY others who say it won't hurt any to run it without separating the glycerine. What are your opinions and experience with this? Thanks, Josh

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jdemaris

05-20-2007 18:27:39




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 Re: OT Vegetable Diesel Opinions in reply to bm3501466, 05-20-2007 12:08:38  
With waste vegetable oil - there are no controls on content since it's not tested and meant for use as motor fuel. And, from there, no controls on how it is used. Due to that, it's pretty hard to make any blanket statements about it. Bio-fuel that is motor-fuel certified is made from uncooked - i.e. virgin oil from specific sources that HAVE been tested for lubicosity and acid content. There is absolutley no doubt - that many people have ruined - or shortened the lives of their injection pumps using WVO. Also no doubt that some people have done okay. Again, the oils differ, the treatment differs, etc. And , I suspect that IF a person even shortens the life of a pump from 200,000 miles - to 75,000 miles - it would go unnoticed. Again, I have seen many pumps ruin head & rotors (rotary pumps) with WVO use. In-line pumps handle WVO much better - but there aren't many in the U.S. So, I guess you have to ask yourself some questions - e.g. - can you do your own pump work? - or do you hire out at $300-$500 per pump? What does the WVO cost you taking into account the time and expense of getting and transporting it, setup expense, etc. I've got a guy nearby that I've helped out a few times with his Stanadyne rotary pumps. He's ruined three of them in the past 5 years using WVO - but he's doesn't see it as a loss. He buys used pumps in the $50 price range and installs them himself. Now, if he was buying over-the-counter $500 pumps and paying an extra $400 labor for installation - it wouldn't seem to make much sense. There is lots of hard test data published - from Stanadyne, CAV, the U.S. Military, Cummins, etc. - about wear analysis on injection pumps with various fuel blends. Thing is - I'm not sure what use such data is since it's likely you have no idea what the chemical makeup is in the waste oil you are getting. I've been using WVO along with waste motor oil for years in several of my diesels - but I don't use a lot and I'm pretty careful. I also do my own pump work.

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bm3501466

05-20-2007 21:27:28




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 Re: OT Vegetable Diesel Opinions in reply to jdemaris, 05-20-2007 18:27:39  
Jdemaris You mentioned burning motor oil. How do you do that without smoking blue? I am curious. Also where do you get stanadyne pumps for $50, I would like to get a few extra for my 6.5. Thanks for any info. Josh



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jdemaris

05-22-2007 06:36:38




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 Here's a few pump numbers in reply to bm3501466, 05-20-2007 21:27:28  
Pumps are not as easy to find cheap for any of the 6.5s. The full mechancial pump for 6.5s - turbo or non-turbo, was only made for one or two years for Civilian use (up to 1993). Many more were - and still are made for the military. Any pump model number ending in 29 - is a 6.2 pump with .29" pump plungers, whereas any pump model number ending with 31 is a 6.5 pump with .31" diam. pump plungers. With civilian models, the DB2 pump was only used up to 1993. After that, the electronic-controlled DS4 was used. Some DS4 pumps use a pump-driver that will not allow use of all fuels. I only used waste oil products in my GM 6.2s, Isuzu 2.2s, and my Ford IH 6.9s and 7.3s. In regard to prices - I often buy entire engines with pumps on them, in the $50 price range. I've got over a dozen spare injection pumps sitting on my shelf. About filtering - all my waste vegetable oil gets poured through a cheese-cloth, then dumped into my bulk fuel tank. My waste engine oil gets no pre-treatment at all, just goes directly into my bulk tank. My bulk fuel tank is 600 gallons and has a fuel pump with its own fuel filter on it. I've had zero problems, but the content of waste-oils to the diesel is never more than 20%. And, one warning. Just a few gallons of waste motor oil turns the entire 600 gallons a dark color. Not sure what questions would come up if my fuel tank was ever "dipped" and the dark color noticed. Here are a few DB2 pump numbers for 6.5s.

DB2831-4911 10183901 1992-93 HD C/K & P - Turbo (200 hp)
DB2831-4927 14098655 1992-93 HD C/K & P - Turbo, 1.2 cSt DB2831-4970 10154607 1992-93 SD - Turbo (15,000 GVW) DB2831-4971 10154608 1992-93 SD - Turbo (15,000 GVW), 1.2 cSt DS4831-5067 10225930 1994-96 LD & HD C/K, G, and P3 Truck & Van * DS4831-5288

DB2831-5079 10224039 1993-97 2½ Ton Cab-over (Military) - Turbo (200 hp) DB2831-5088 10229115 1994-97 HD P & G Van - N/A (170 hp) DB2831-5089 10229119 1994-97 HD P & G Van - N/A, ALT. DB2831-5119 10238967 1994-97 HD P Truck - N/A, 2600 RPM (120 hp) 6.5 Liter Applications DB2831-5129 12550269 1994 HD P & G Van - N/A, 1.2 cSt (170 hp) DB2831-5149 12550433 1994-96 HMMWV (Military) - N/A, 1.2 cSt (170 hp) DB2831-5157 12551521 1994 HD O.E.M. - Turbo (200 hp) DB2831-5164 12552397 1992-93 HD C/K & P - Turbo (Man. Trans.) Service DB2831-5167 12552621 1992-93 SD - Turbo (15,000 GVW) DB2831-5209 12555697 1995-97 HD (Military) - N/A, 1.2 cSt

DB2831-5323 12559097 1997 HD 6.5 replacement for 6.2 (3 speed Auto. Trans.) DB2831-5436 12561383 1994 HD P& G - (170 hp) DB2831-5437 12561384 1994 HD P& G DB2831-5438 12561385 1994 HD P - 1.2 cSt, 2600 RPM (120 hp)

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the Unforgiven

05-20-2007 19:32:32




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 Re: OT Vegetable Diesel Opinions in reply to jdemaris, 05-20-2007 18:27:39  
Hey j, what do you use to filter the waste oil?



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bm3501466

05-20-2007 21:25:03




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 Re: OT Vegetable Diesel Opinions in reply to the Unforgiven, 05-20-2007 19:32:32  
I start out with a sheet or a blanket to get rid of the big stuff. I then pump the oil through a couple of inline furnace fuel filters and then through a CAT dirt/water/fuel separator and a Perkins water separator down to 2 microns. You can find all of this stuff on ebay or a local hardware store. It cost me about 2oo to gather up all of the materials and barrells to get this setup. As Jdemaris said though, you need to weigh the cost benefit. I have been getting my WVO from one place and I know what kind of oil I am burning. But the other problem is that of what chemicals and substances are in the oil that can't be taken out with filters from the fried food. It is interesting, definitely something to do if you have time for another hobby.

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Jim K

05-20-2007 15:52:51




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 Re: OT Vegetable Diesel Opinions in reply to bm3501466, 05-20-2007 12:08:38  
bm I burn straight veg oil in my 02 F-350 But I mix it 2 parts diesel to 1 part veg oil. going on my second year with no problems. It did gel up on me once last winter, the coldest day of the year because I mixed it wrong.
I even burn it in my kerosene space heater (torpedo type)same mixture.
and the exhaust smell is much nicer.



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MSM

05-20-2007 15:19:17




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 Re: OT Vegetable Diesel Opinions in reply to bm3501466, 05-20-2007 12:08:38  
There was some talk on another forum about some states cracking down on the WVO use. Seems they tend to frown upon it since there is no road use tax applied.Same fines and penalties as running dyed off road diesel in a road vehicle.Something to think about.



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bm3501466

05-20-2007 15:31:31




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 Re: OT Vegetable Diesel Opinions in reply to MSM, 05-20-2007 15:19:17  
For my diesel tractors..... .not my truck....haha



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Chrisco

05-20-2007 15:01:34




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 Re: OT Vegetable Diesel Opinions in reply to bm3501466, 05-20-2007 12:08:38  
I too have been thinking about that. From what learned from this web site were the best ways to I have figured out how to it.



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Clarkbug

05-20-2007 14:57:38




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 Re: OT Vegetable Diesel Opinions in reply to bm3501466, 05-20-2007 12:08:38  
I honestly cant speak for what it might do to your injection pumps, since I dont own any diesels at the moment... I havent used the WVO (Waste Veggie Oil) in anything, but I did lots of research into it while I was doing stuff in college and afterwards for our farm.

My concern would be that you are mixing it with your other fuels, and you will run into a gelling problem at relatively high temperatures. You could solidify the WVO in your fuel lines, injectors, and pump, and that would do a number on them for sure....

I know there is a company that makes equipment for autos and trucks that routes a coolant line through a separate storage tank. Once the engine warms up the WVO, you flip a switch and run on the straight oil. Before you shut down, you switch back to diesel to clear the lines so you can start the next day (www.greasecar.com)

Just my thoughts, maybe someone else has some actual first hand experience with it.

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Bob N.Y.

05-20-2007 15:18:40




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 Re: OT Vegetable Diesel Opinions in reply to Clarkbug, 05-20-2007 14:57:38  
I know a man who has been running a VW Rabbit diesel on wvo for at least 2 years with no ill effects. He built his own system to heat the onboard filter. He does switch to diesel before he shuts it down.



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