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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Standby Generator Thoughts (warning, kinda long)

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Blue3992 (N. Il

12-05-2006 21:45:06




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I’m in Northern Illinois, and the recent snow/ice storms got me thinking about getting a standby generator for the place. I'm not too worried about the occassional time that the power is out for an hour or two. What I am worried about is if the power is out for a day or more. Furnace dosen't run, pipes can freeze, etc.

I searched this site a little bit, and got some good info. Here are some thoughts and questions for y’all.

- I want to get a unit that runs on Natural Gas. I figure it’s easier and safer than having a gasoline or diesel powered unit. Not to mention, in the even of a major Katrina-style catastrophe, gasoline and diesel will probably be in short supply.

- Looking around the web, it seems like that major manufacturers are Guardian and Generac. Any other suggestions of ones I should look at?

- These things look like a big box that would be installed on a concrete pad outside my home. Isn’t this kind of attractive to thieves? Wouldn’t this thing be pretty easy to rip off? Does anyone make a natural gas powered generator I can install in my basement, and just vent to the outside?

- I figure I’ll get one that supplies power to only pre-selected circuits, i.e. I’ll only energize the circuits I absolutely need, i.e. furnace, water heater, well pump, fridge, and a couple of lights. The furnace and water heater are gas-fired.

- Looking around, it seems like the smallest stand-by units are 7kW. Would this be enough for what I’m planning? How about if I added in a window air conditioner?

- As far as prices go, it looks like the generator will be somewhere around 2300 bucks. Does that sound right? Any rough guess-estimates on how much it will be to get the electric hooked up? How about the gas?

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buickanddeere

12-06-2006 19:14:36




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 Re: Standby Generator Thoughts (warning, kinda lon in reply to Blue3992 (N. Illinois), 12-05-2006 21:45:06  
Forget about Micky Mousing around with the "Essential Circuit" emergency panel. Just install a proper transfer switch at the meter base or use a breaker panel that transfers everything. I agree LP or diesel is the way to go. A natural gas system is vulnerable. Get a proper sized unit. Saving a few bucks to purchase a too small generator will always be aggravation.



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massey333

12-07-2006 08:54:50




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 Re: Standby Generator Thoughts (warning, kinda lon in reply to buickanddeere, 12-06-2006 19:14:36  
I will have to agree with you about 95%.To comply with our(my) electric company rules you are talking A$10,000++ Job(gen plus(with) Switch).Not too many people can or will Put out that much for Sometime need.I have 6 200Amp.Double throw Fused disconects plus 3 60 and100 Amp.(Mickey Mouse Essential Circuit Panels as you call them)in rental Houses so that only the Essentials are able to run.The Nat.Gas vs Others is ????,because not to many People have a READY(onhand)supply of Diesel or LP or Gasoline,so it is what you have to work with that Matters.You are right inthat you never have too big a Gen.The Money and Personal needs are the Final Answer.

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Easy1

12-06-2006 06:56:02




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 Re: Standby Generator Thoughts (warning, kinda lon in reply to Blue3992 (N. Illinois), 12-05-2006 21:45:06  
I just put in a Guardian 15K unit with the automatic transfer switch. I don't woory about thieves too much, they would have to take apart the fuel connection, and the connection to the main line. Pretty time consuming. Most thieves aren't that sharp. That's why they steal.



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kyhayman

12-06-2006 06:10:28




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 Re: Standby Generator Thoughts (warning, kinda lon in reply to Blue3992 (N. Illinois), 12-05-2006 21:45:06  
There are a lot of big indoor natural gas units. The only ones I have seen are big ones though. I use a 7.5 KW Coleman, runs about 8 hrs on a tank of gasoline.

Hospitals, schools, nursing homes all use big natural gas indoor generators. The NG units I've seen, theres no danger of them being stolen without a crane.



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massey333

12-06-2006 06:07:15




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 Re: Standby Generator Thoughts (warning, kinda lon in reply to Blue3992 (N. Illinois), 12-05-2006 21:45:06  
You didn't say what you have,,House-Farm-Farmette or what.For a house I won't go less then a 10,000 Cont.unit,Nat.Gas is problely the best in your case.(Everybody makes a Nat.Gas Model)The Units you named are the same make,there are SEVERAL other good or better brands out there.I WOULDN'T put it in the house but could go in a DETACHED Building if you are afraid of thief(Anything can be stolen from anywhere if they so set to).You can get a seperate(second breaker box that has the breakers for the circuits you want to run on the gen.with its own Provison for LEGAL gen.hookup for around 200 Dollars.)Thats what I did for our rental houses.Get a Northern Tool Catalog and you will get all the ideas you of what you can do and some pricing of what it will cost.I have 4 units(2-35,000,,1-20,000,,1-10,000 and two of them haven't been needed in over a year BUT the others have run a week at atime.NO OFFINCE but don't be like a lot of folks and jump in now and yr.or two later say I didn't use it so I have to get rid of it.DO IT For the long haul not just today.Sorry for the long winded post but I see to many people Jump in and out as the weather changes.

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Blue3992

12-06-2006 00:33:29




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 Re: Standby Generator Thoughts (warning, kinda lon in reply to Blue3992 (N. Illinois), 12-05-2006 21:45:06  
Thanks for the info so far. I should add, I pretty much HAVE to get a natural gas powered unit. I'm away from home on occassion, and I don't want to have to worry about the rest of the family changing propane tanks, filling gas tanks, etc.



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Bill-KCKs

12-06-2006 21:21:37




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 Re: Standby Generator Thoughts (warning, kinda lon in reply to Blue3992, 12-06-2006 00:33:29  
Look at the Kohler website. They show the fuel consumption of their various generators. This 8.5kW generator de-rates to 7kW on natural gas. At 100% rated load, the 8.5 kW will consume 8.4 pounds of vapor per hour. A 150-gal bulk tank will last a long time. And LP won't go bad like gasoline would.

Natural gas is OK; it's just that there is a weak link having to depend on an outside source for fuel.

I just found a useful formula.
Tank Size in Gallons X .81756 / Fuel Consumption in m3/hr=hours running time. In the case of this 8.5 generator at 100% load, and a 150-gallon tank it would run for 2.5 days. At 50% load 5 days....

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Robert in TN

12-06-2006 00:56:31




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 Re: Standby Generator Thoughts (warning, kinda lon in reply to Blue3992, 12-06-2006 00:33:29  
My neighbor has an old generator he got from his dad. He installed it in his garage and ran the exhaust and installed the muffler outside. Works great, I would still leave a window opened some just to keep fresh air circulating. The enclosed units are nice but could be attractive to thieves. I'm sure there is a way to secure them to keep them from walking away.



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RM in Va.

12-06-2006 00:15:17




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 Re: Standby Generator Thoughts (warning, kinda lon in reply to Blue3992 (N. Illinois), 12-05-2006 21:45:06  
I went through the same decision making process about 5 years ago. Wound up buying a PTO generator and making a 3 pt. frame for it and used a PTO shaft that I already had. Cost back then was under $1,200 for a 13,000 watt/15,000 surge/50amp.

Things I looked at were upkeep on another engine that would maybe sit unused for 99.999% of the time and being portable. I have several wells for cattle so I need to be able to move the generator to fill waterers. I have two tractors and keep diesel fuel in a storage tank. So that's why I went with the PTO type.

Before I bought the PTO generator we'd be without power for up to 7 days in a hurricane or noreaster snow or ice storm. Since I bought the generator the longest I've run it was 9 hours. So if you want to stop having long term power outages just buy a generator. LOL

The PTO generator has come in handy on the farm. Can have power anywhere I need it now. Use it for small projects and repair work. It's easy to hook to the tractor and I think if I had to do it again I'd still buy the PTO type. Can also help out neighbors. Have plenty of eldery neighbors close to me and they need looking after when we have storms come through. That's what has worked out pretty good for me.

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Bill-KCKs

12-05-2006 22:45:23




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 Re: Standby Generator Thoughts (warning, kinda lon in reply to Blue3992 (N. Illinois), 12-05-2006 21:45:06  
Consider a propane generator. There are some scenarios where natural gas could be interrupted--power failure or terrorist attack at a critical facility, pipeline rupture during an earthquake. (The New Madrid fault in Missouri is a hazard to do that.) I haven"t shopped for awhile, but 1800-rpm generators were built for long-duration outages. Consider Onan and Kohler, too. Keep the oil changed and exercise your generator under load regularly.

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55 50

12-05-2006 21:58:16




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 Re: Standby Generator Thoughts (warning, kinda lon in reply to Blue3992 (N. Illinois), 12-05-2006 21:45:06  
I have a 7.5 KW portable Generac gasoline powered unit, (peak output is 13 KW) It powers my entire house including a well pump which, with its surge, is the largest instantaneous load. It cost $1600 in 2000. No problems and very pleased with it. You should be fine with the size you're considering.



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Blue3992 (N. Illinois)

12-05-2006 21:47:10




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 Re: Standby Generator Thoughts (warning, kinda lon in reply to Blue3992 (N. Illinois), 12-05-2006 21:45:06  
I should add that I've got a boiler, not a furnace.



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Rex in Australia

12-06-2006 02:30:59




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 Re: Standby Generator Thoughts (warning, kinda lon in reply to Blue3992 (N. Illinois), 12-05-2006 21:47:10  
You blokes have got tractors, why have yet another engine to maintain, fuel etc?
Quite a common setup here in Australia on dairy farms is a back up generator mounted inside the shed with a hole through the wall for the tractor pto shaft. Works well, and saves the problems of keeping another engine ready to use in case of loss of power. Can have a nice neat switching set up ready to change over from mains to back up.

Just a thought, all the best
God Bless,
Rex

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Gary in Geneva

12-06-2006 10:41:48




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 Re: Standby Generator Thoughts (warning, kinda lon in reply to Rex in Australia, 12-06-2006 02:30:59  
Rex,

I never would have though of doing it that way! It is way too easy and practical.

I have always seen PTO generators mounted on the three point, or small trailer so that they are portable. The obvious down side to that is they can be a big pain to hook up. Thanks for the great idea! I will continue to use my 56 pound Honda for portable power and mount the PTO generator out of the weather where it is easy to connect to the tractor, and is connected to the transfer switch.

Gary

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BarryfromIA

12-06-2006 19:11:39




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 Re: Standby Generator Thoughts (warning, kinda lon in reply to Gary in Geneva, 12-06-2006 10:41:48  
Back in the blizzard of 1975 the extreme pressure change and the high winds caused snow to get in to ignition systems, and plug air cleaners on tractors out in the weather running generators. This was in Northwest Iowa.



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