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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Piston Dome Volume Determination

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Aaron Ford

11-20-2006 16:17:27




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Since y'all nailed my first question to the wall, I am going to reward you by asking another...

I have the old flat tops and the new pop up domed replacements. I have determined that my combustion chambers are 110cc, but how to determine a piston dome without involving the block? I have a syringe, access to playdough and the like. Wait I have an idea.. It involves cooking oil...

BRB

Aaron

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dr.sportster

11-20-2006 17:51:56




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 Re: Piston Dome Volume Determination in reply to Aaron Ford, 11-20-2006 16:17:27  
The only way to cc the comp ratio accuratly is to use the piston installed.Place a degree wheel on the motor.Use the positive stop method to zero degree wheel.put modeling clay as a ring seal with piston at TDC [rings on].then fill comb chamber all the way[noting exact amount from cc tube].Then bring piston to BDC[take off head and check sealing of modeling clay and fill the comb.chamber and cylinder[noting that amount].If you measure the cyl volume then fill the head off the motor you are not taking into account the squish area at TDC.I have found that trying to calculate squish area gives innacurate results.It doesnt take many ccs to give a half a point of compression inaccuracy.The trick thats the hardest is to get the spark plug hole to be the highst point of filling.The thinner the fluid the faster it will drain from your cc tube but then you risk leakage around rings if its too thin.I use tranny fluid and some parts cleaner to help it along.Then save it in a container marked cc fluid.I have tried to measure the piston domes alone using mdoel clay in a candy tin and when you pull it out of the clay it gives a little causing innacuracy.If you use the method Ive stated you will get the real deal.If you measure it as separate parts youll be close within maybe half a point of the real ratio.On some motors its very hard to get the spark plug hole as the highest point without it laying down and alot of wood shims etc.

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dr.sportster

11-20-2006 18:17:50




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 Re: Piston Dome Volume Determination in reply to dr.sportster, 11-20-2006 17:51:56  
I forgot to say the head gasket must be used or it will change readings to be innacurate and give a higher ratio.



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Aaron Ford

11-20-2006 17:02:36




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 Re: Piston Dome Volume Determination in reply to Aaron Ford, 11-20-2006 16:17:27  
Well, the missus tripped up the cooking oil idea, so I went and got some wd-40. Took the wd-40 and sprayed the piston top. Then I formed the playdough around the dome. I turned it upside down and the playdough fell off leaving a perfect imprint. I filled this with water using the cat's medicine dropper. Took 22 cc's to fill 'er. (Knew that cat was good for something)

Claculating this with my bore and stroke and combustion chamber volume I found that I have increased my compression from 7.1:1 to 9.1:1. Should still run on pump gas.

Any thoughts on possible increase in HP or decreased lifespan on my main bearings?

Aaron

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J Schwiebert

11-20-2006 16:59:33




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 Re: Piston Dome Volume Determination in reply to Aaron Ford, 11-20-2006 16:17:27  
If it was me I would try the playdough first. I would push the piston into the playdough just to cover the area of the dome. Then I would fill that imprint and subtract it from the combustion chamber volume. How close do you want to be? Are we going pulling? I have another though too if you want to go bigger. How well have you researched this? J



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Aaron Ford

11-20-2006 18:41:42




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 Re: Piston Dome Volume Determination in reply to J Schwiebert, 11-20-2006 16:59:33  
Not really all that well.

The reason for the measurement is that the engine was damaged by the previous owner by detonation, preignition and the like. It broke ring lands, broke the top rings on all cylinders, and actually dented the liner on number 3. Number 2 piston was recently changed. I thought a valve had come apart in the past, but my machine shop seemed to think it was preignition.

So with the history of the engine known, it caused great concern when the replacement pistons had a considerable dome. I needed to know if my new setup was going to require 93 octane or would be able to live on 87.

The last thing I want to do is purchase a second $869 dollar kit...

Here's what I have. 3 37/64 bore, 4 3/4 in stroke, .050 in head gasket with a 3 3/4 in cylinder holes, 110 cc combustion chamber. I measured a 22cc dome at zero deck. It is a 4 cyl engine.

I came up with a 9.0649:1 or rounded to 9.1:1.

Original engine had flat tops at zero deck and approx 120cc combustion chamber.

The engine should measure 176 cu inches, but tht's not what I get when I cipher it out.

Whadya'll get?

Thanks Aaron

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