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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

diesel starting question

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Jeff Oliver

11-18-2006 05:18:26




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We went and looked at 4 A-C tractors for sale,2 200's and 2 170's. The 170's are gas and one needs carb work. The 200's we were told one would run but the batteries were down,( that's since changed to " yea I think there was something wrong with that one). But anyway, the man said that on the diesels and on the 190 that he still uses he has to use starter flluid to get them running no matter what the weather. Once running they sound great and no smoke or anything, just wondering what would be causing him to use the starting fluid all the time? A seal somewhere maybe?

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Hurst in ky

11-18-2006 08:29:36




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 Re: diesel starting question in reply to Jeff Oliver, 11-18-2006 05:18:26  
Theres a lot that could cause it to not start w/out either. It could be injection pump timing, the head needing work, improperly adjusted valves, compression rings, or a bad starter or something in the electrical system not turning it over fast enough. Also, check the transmission and the fluid levels (use his manual), esp the rear end, the final drives, and the hydaulics (after running it around for a while of course). I have a 7000 (a 200 in different sheet metal and beefed up through the drive train with a 3spd powershift) and it is a great tractor. The 301 is a very good engine, very well built, it was making power that most other companies were using 400+ cubic inch engines for. Allis 301s do not start very well though, because their pistons use 2 compression rings which are shaped in a way that does not seal very well at cranking speeds, so it can take 10 seconds to start the tractor when it is in good shape at 50 degrees unless it has a "truseal" (I think that is right) or as it used to be known, the M&W overhaul kit (because M&W used to make them) which has different shaped rings that seal better at lower cranking speeds. Check it over and try to get a good price on the tractor. Also, try the unofficial-allis board, there are a lot of good allis guys over there. The compression rings would be the last things I would think, there is so much it could be instead that is easier to repair.

Hurst

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Steven@AZ

11-18-2006 06:53:49




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 Re: diesel starting question in reply to Jeff Oliver, 11-18-2006 05:18:26  
I agree with the others that the engines are probably shot; however, I have had a similar problem with a fresh overhaul due to retarded injection pump timing... but if he's been using ether that much it has probably caused other problems.



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BILLPA

11-18-2006 06:31:18




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 Re: diesel starting question in reply to Jeff Oliver, 11-18-2006 05:18:26  

Bad compression rings from using either



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jdemaris

11-18-2006 06:15:45




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 Re: diesel starting question in reply to Jeff Oliver, 11-18-2006 05:18:26  
Low fuel delivery and/or broken top rings will both do it. I ran an Allis Chalmers for two years with no top rings at all. Needed ether even when it was 90 degrees F outside - and ran awful when it was first started. Once good and hot though, it ran okay and had full power. Even if the original problem was fuel delivery - it usually leads to broken rings anyway - due to over ether use. Many older diesels use coventional piston rings - square- cut - instead of the pressure-sealing triangle shaped rings (Keystone). The older style rings break very easily. Sometimes, even a newly rebuilt engine can be ruined with a few mornings of ether starting.

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Allan In NE

11-18-2006 06:14:08




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 Re: diesel starting question in reply to Jeff Oliver, 11-18-2006 05:18:26  
Jeff,

Like the other fellas say, they are plumb worn out. Need engines fer sure.

Allan



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Nebraska Cowman

11-18-2006 05:52:33




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 Re: diesel starting question in reply to Jeff Oliver, 11-18-2006 05:18:26  
They just get worn out. Low compression causes hard starting. For ocasional use they will run a long time but you better buy them way cheap. Overhauls cost big bucks.

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Even bad boys are just as good as they can be

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T

11-18-2006 05:51:42




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 Re: diesel starting question in reply to Jeff Oliver, 11-18-2006 05:18:26  
its an addiction! Low on compression, bad compression (top) rings.



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