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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

O/T Electric wiring question

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37 chief

09-07-2006 12:08:43




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I am moving my shop compressor which is 220v. I am going to run 2 hots and a ground. If I want to put in a 110v outlet by my compressor, can I just use the ground which is grounded to the panel for my nuteral leg? Seams like the nuteral and the ground are the same in the panel. Thanks for any help. Stan




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dr.sportster

09-07-2006 14:50:59




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 Re: O/T Electric wiring question in reply to 37 chief, 09-07-2006 12:08:43  
Its a code violation for a reason. Not everything that works when your done in wiring is safe.They are two different conductors serving two entirely different purposes.One thing about a neutral is its a current carrying [grounded]conductor.The gound is a grounding conductor.One ending in D one ending in G if you want to remember.A lawyer who knows nothing about electricity can hold up a ground wire in court and prevent an insurance company from making payment.This is the reason it does not pay to do this type of installation.If you ever have no place to land a ground it should be completly removed and not left as evidence of not being connected for the same lawyer to hold up and show off your not installing it.

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Mike (WA)

09-07-2006 12:19:37




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 Re: O/T Electric wiring question in reply to 37 chief, 09-07-2006 12:08:43  
Official answer, I'm sure, is that you have to run a neutral, as well as a separate ground, all the way back to the panel (where they both connect to the same ground buss). Unofficial answer is that it will work fine like you propose to do it. A lot of this depends on how actively you plan to involve the local electrical and building inspectors, if you get my drift.



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john in la

09-07-2006 12:32:16




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 Re: O/T Electric wiring question in reply to Mike (WA), 09-07-2006 12:19:37  
It also depends if he wants the place to burn down or to get shocked when he touches the compressor.

A ground should never be used for a neutral.

A ground never caries current unless their is a problem in which case it grounds the current tripping the breaker.

A neutral carries current every time the plug is used. That is why they have a coating on a neutral wire and not a ground.



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buickanddeere

09-07-2006 13:23:39




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 Re: O/T Electric wiring question in reply to john in la, 09-07-2006 12:32:16  
Right on John.

How can people be so cheap to go 90% of the way on a job but render it a dangerous mess by taking a shortcut. Using the ground as a return also raises the voltage of everything bonded to it above true ground potential. 5 volts is common and 10 volts is no great suprise. Hooved animals standing on true earth with their snouts in a water or feed manger can feel less than one volt and become stressed. Mastitious, poor feed conversion, restlessness etc. At much over two volts some animals will dehydrate rather than drink. I've been through a few systems after the vet couldn't find biological reasons and he suspected tingle voltage. Scarey actually and dangerous to work on or test too. The well pump sitting upon a wooden block on the wet floor and fed from a 2 wire cheater turned into a light socket was a favorite. The outside casing was 120V to true earth. No or useless ground rods, ground/neutrals bonded in pony panel, ground wires torn off, ground wires just wrapped around rather than securly clamped/bonded. Farmer Fixes wiring where the ground was used as a current carrying conductor in a 14/2 when a 14/3 should have been used. And the all tme favourite in dairy operations. A 240V cooling fan motor, pump motor etc has failed and was replaced with a 120V model. No neutral so they tie one lead to chassis. Zap, well duh. And I keep hearing the same words. "But it works". Just because it works doesn't make it right. I could wire the stable lights and receptacles with barbed wire and fence insulators and that would work too.

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37 chief

09-07-2006 13:52:03




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 Re: O/T Electric wiring question in reply to buickanddeere, 09-07-2006 13:23:39  
I was not trying to save money, by using the ground as a nuteral leg. I just thought since I was installing the new service I would install a 110 v outlet. Since the nuteral and the ground are tied to the same connection in the box why would I need to run another wire? I will run the extra white wire to be used as a nuteral, to keep every thing looking good. Stan



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dr.sportster

09-07-2006 15:04:32




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 Re: O/T Electric wiring question in reply to 37 chief, 09-07-2006 13:52:03  
Cheif I hate to sound like a wise guy but unless the compressor came with a receptacle or light that is more than likely illegal to still tap the 110 receptacle off that 220 comp line nootch, just run a piece of 12/2 over at the same time and put it on its own 110v breaker.If the tie on the 220 comp breaker is loose and the 110v receptacle trips one leg only of the circuit your compressor now is only fed with one 110 volt leg.Not good.

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