Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Hazards of Biodiesel

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
NC Wayne

08-01-2006 19:47:50




Report to Moderator

I just read the post below about biodiesel and thought I'd share a few things I've seen and heard over the past couple of weeks about biodiesel. First is the effects of biodiesel on the fuel system components. I was talking to the guy we take all our fuel pumps and injectors to the other day and he clued me into what he's been seeing since the bio came into the limelight so strong. He said the moisture content of the "fuel" tended to be much higher than regular diesel. For want of a better explination he said the water was intrained in the fuel instead of setteling out like it does with regular diesel. This moisture content caused the fuel to have less of a lubricating effect on the pump parts allowing for more wear as well as causing rust/corrosion on the injector pumps internals as well as the injectors themselves. He said if your gonna run bio you need to find some kind of additive to run with it to offset these effects....but if you decide not to that's fine too because it's job security for him. He's been doing pumps since the seventies and he knows his stuff, and he's never steered us wrong before so I take that as gospel. He also said to watch out when the new ultra low diesel hits the market. The reduction in sulfur will cause pump seals that were fine with the "regular" stuff to dry out and start leaking. He said they had problems with alot of pumps when they decreased the sulfur years ago to it's present state and he's already seen a few problems recently since some stations have finally started carrying the ultra low stuff..... .Just think their already talking about Ultra Ultra low dlesel and the other isn't even commonplace yet..... The other thing I heard was from a good friend that knows several guys with the Dept of Revenue here in NC. What they said, in effect, is that the "free" bio fuel thing isn't gonna last much longer. Think about it, for every gallon of bio you make and use that's state and federal road tax money lost while your still driving over state and federal roads, that still need maintance. See where I'm going with this yet? That's right they plan to tax every gallon of bio just like they do regular fuel. While I don't agree with taxes in general because of the way I've seen our tax money wasted at both the state and federal level, I can still understand their thinking from a governmental view. As it is I fill out a fuel tax report every quarter so they can divy up the fuel money I spent, by state, for every mile I traveled in that state, or get money back from those states I bought fuel in but didn't travel enough miles in to burn it all. For those of you that do it too I feel for you, it's not hard to do it's just stupid in my opinion. They usually wind up owing me back a dollar or two so it's no skin off my back directly, but think about how much money is spent every year to have an agency dedicated to a program like this....I'll get off my stump now and back to the origional topics. The first I know for fact, not just on his word which was good enough for me anyway, but he also showed me some pump parts so I could see what he was talking about. The second story I can't confirm so take it for what it's worth...it's too plausible and too much like the government not to be true.

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
dej(JED)

08-02-2006 06:06:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: Hazards of Biodiesel in reply to NC Wayne, 08-01-2006 19:47:50  
I run a testing lab that specializes in fuels.
All fuels contain moisture in varying degrees.
We run a test called the Karl Fisher Water test.
It is one of several methods used to document fuel quality. The list of all tests is detailed in ASTM D 975. All fuels have the ability to carry water. Gasolines can and do carry varying levels and no fuel is ever free of all water. Typically the level is from 0 ppm to 450 ppm (parts per million). Blends of bio such as b2,b5, b10, etc. aren't going to have a severe affect on anything. More often than not the problem with all fuels is tank cleanliness. In the quality control programs that we run for major distributors, we find tanks with bacterial growths and water in teh bottoms, 15% of the time. These sceanrios are at the heart of 99.9% of the fuel problems. I have used B20 in my 766 & 966 for over 10 years now and I have encounter no problems whatsoever.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
John M

08-02-2006 03:10:41




Report to Moderator
 Re: Hazards of Biodiesel in reply to NC Wayne, 08-01-2006 19:47:50  
While I think you need an education in bio, as well as you mechanic buddy, I would like to know what engine you have that uses a pump? Higher moisture content, yea if its not done properly, commercial B20 is a very good fuel, with out the need for additives. WVO on the other hand can be bad if not filtered good, and the free end of it, yea, the guberment will try and tax me, but they got to find it first. ULSD is being used now while the new stuff is being blened in so if anything is causing wear problems, its that!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Mark - IN.

08-01-2006 21:28:25




Report to Moderator
 Re: Hazards of Biodiesel in reply to NC Wayne, 08-01-2006 19:47:50  
Wayne, I've been meaning to ask the Edison guys about bio, especially the mechanics. They've been using pure bio for the past decade, so I figure they'd make for good references. Haven't been to any of the edison spots lately though.

As far as taxing bio per barrel, might be, might not be. There's this arguement that little cars are becoming more and more common on the highways every day, especially with the higher fuel prices, and then the arguement is that they don't use as much fuel or make as many stops at the pump, so tax revenues are down, so taxes must go up somewhere else... Oddly enough, the same politicians that make that argument also say that fuel consumption is at an all time high. ??? I guess that I must've missed something there, what with both contradicting arguments coming out of the same mouths. Go figure.

Anyway, in the national news sometime back was the announcement that the State of Oregon is/was considering putting GPS devices on vehicals so that they can calculate everyone's travels so that they can tax everyone the same for road maintenance by tracking milage (even off road). Kind of blows a hole in the governments argument that smaller cars are not only more fuel efficient, but their lighter weight causes less wear and tear on the roads. If that's true, then why bill a Yugo owner the same as a Hummer owner? Anyway, at least 3 other states are looking at the possibility of doing the same, and so are the feds. "Onstar" on your car, just about all manufacturers offering something similar? Aint looking good, those factory GPS's are in fact GPS's transmitting a signal even if you choose not to renew your subscription after the initial year expires. You know what they say about the highway to hell being paved with good intentions...along comes a politician to muck it up, so disconnect your Onstar.

Funny thing about politicians, we keep electing them over and over and never learn our lessons.

Mark

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ken Macfarlane

08-02-2006 04:40:39




Report to Moderator
 Re: Hazards of Biodiesel in reply to Mark - IN., 08-01-2006 21:28:25  
Interesting, some people are using biodiesel to help offset the loss in lubricity from ULSD as it has much better lubricating properties.

I have seen some issues with WVO such as injector coking and I have seen poorly made biodiesel with water and other chemicals still left in it. Commercial fuel is much different though.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Mark - IN.

08-02-2006 05:08:31




Report to Moderator
 Re: Hazards of Biodiesel in reply to Ken Macfarlane, 08-02-2006 04:40:39  
Ken, you might be right about commercial grade bio being different. I remember seeing an invoice on the accounts payable lady's desk once at one of the Edison facilities, and it certainly was costly per gallon. I honestly have no recollection of what it was per gallon after breaking down the cost of buying it bulk, which was also on the invoice as unit price, but do remember at the time that it was pretty expensive as compared to fossil diesel. I shrugged it off as delivery cost or something of the nature, but remember thinking that at that price, bio didn't seem worth it. But then again, to stay ahead of game of pollution complainers and stuff, from a huge fleet owner's stand point, such as Edison, maybe its better to go out the higher cost so as not to be tagged later down the road as being evironmentally unfriendly, or some other potentially bad publicity.

Mark

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ken Macfarlane

08-02-2006 09:35:00




Report to Moderator
 Re: Hazards of Biodiesel in reply to Mark - IN., 08-02-2006 05:08:31  
It is more expensive than traditional diesel, mostly cause traditional diesel is there to be pumped/cleaned/cracked and sold. But biodiesel is a huge potential stepping stone to get away from mid-east oil. Think of all the unused farmland in the US and Canada sitting empty being regrown over in weeds and trees. If they can get refining biodiesel to be cheaper and less centralized so we don't have to ship products all over creation there is a real trend of self-sufficiency that could develop.

Imagine the savings of not having to send troops all over the world if a pipe line might be threatened or if so and so might threaten ships passing through the suez canal etc etc. Imagine what being able to grow your own fuel will do for your world position when other oil supplies dwindle.

Short sighted would say biodiesel is not an improvement, long term it is gonna get better. Has to.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy