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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

E 85 thingy

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Delbert

07-15-2006 05:47:33




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If i remmeber right when they came out with unleaded gas they made us beleive that we couldn,t burn it in older motors without some kind of a additive. Well we have been useing it for sometime now with no problems no additives either. So way won,t it work with e 85? Maybe ease into it alittle at a time. See what happens alittle more alittle less until we get to a happy medium. Ok its time to go back to work or play whatever comes first.

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RustyFarmall

07-15-2006 07:33:34




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 Re: E 85 thingy in reply to Delbert, 07-15-2006 05:47:33  
Delbert, I don't about you, but I find it really amusing that anytime this subject comes up, the first people to respond are the ones who will do there absolute best to convince all of us that any amount of alcohol in the fuel will totally destroy an engine. Apparently these folks all work for the big oil companies.



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Leland

07-15-2006 10:22:30




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 Re: E 85 thingy in reply to RustyFarmall, 07-15-2006 07:33:34  
Rusty I don't work for big oil but E85 is a joke it costs more to produce than it's worth ,and anybody that thinks it saves oil is a fool bacause they burn about 2 gallons of diesel to produce 1 gallon of alcohol ,and that is from the time the planter drops the seed to the time the tanker hits the gas station .



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Matt from CT

07-15-2006 11:08:40




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 Re: E 85 thingy in reply to Leland, 07-15-2006 10:22:30  
1) The studies that had the worse return on investment if you will of 2x energy input as the output...

Have been largely discredited because they included the BTU equivelant input...of the sun.

Which is the whole goal.

2) Of the use of btu's worth of petroleum to grow Corn the farm, 1/2 of it is nitrogen fertilizer.

Anyone heard of these things called Legumes?

While we might have to accept lower yields, and more fuel usage for tillage, HOWEVER, the net BTU generated can be dramatically tipped by moving to less synthetic fertilizer dependent methods.

3) Corn is probably not the ideal fuel. Actually, it probably simply plays a role in a rotation with other crops and the development of improved systems like celloustic ethanol.

4) Nope, we won't replace our entire petroleum use for fuel.

The U.S. produces 35% of our petroleum today, and that rate could be maintained in the future as oil offshore of Florida, Virginia, and New England is eventually opened up.

Add to the mix 20% from bio fuels -- both diesel and alcohol -- which isn't unrealistic without severe impact on our environment

And work to tweak out 10-20% more efficiency to reduce demands...

Suddenly our vulnerability to imports is drastically altered.

Petroleum is highly fungible, and highly marginal -- as we've seen, price rises of $1.50 or more has only reduced consumption by a few points...at the same time, a few points more supply could cause prices to drop like a rock...so you don't need a lot of bio-fuel to have big impacts.

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JT

07-15-2006 06:47:42




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 Re: E 85 thingy in reply to Delbert, 07-15-2006 05:47:33  
To add to what Leland said, The alchohal also has a higher viscosity and a dirrerant burn rate and differant BTUs that gas does, so you also have to have the jetting to burn the E85. I foyu check with the people who run E85, yo will find out their fuel ecenomy drops when using the E85.
The main reason there was problems when gashal first came out, as Leland stated, it is corrosive, and it took old dirty rusted tanks, cleaned them real good, then clogged up fuel filters. That was one of the biggest problems, fuel delivery problems.

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MarkB_MI

07-15-2006 06:44:34




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 Re: E 85 thingy in reply to Delbert, 07-15-2006 05:47:33  
Most older engines (30's through 60's) were designed with the assumption that they would be using leaded fuel for valve seat lubrication. The later engines have hardened seats that don't require lead.

There are several reasons that we didn't see a lot of problems after the switch to unleaded fuel. The main one is that most of the older engines didn't see a lot of use after the switch. You could still get regular leaded gas until around 1990; by this time almost of the leaded fuel engines were over 20 years old.

Another reason we didn't see problems after switching to unleaded fuel is that an engine only needs a few hours of operation to get a "lifetime" lead treatment. Today, aircraft engine manufacturers recommend that you operate the first 10-20 hours on leaded fuel, even if you intend to operate on unleaded fuel ("mogas", as flyers call it).

The fact is, it is nearly impossible to buy fuel today that doesn't have some ethanol in it. Of course, the higher the ethanol content the greater the risk you'll have problems with fuel system components; the choice is up to you.

Ethanol content in auto fuel is a big problem for aircraft that run mogas. These planes need a fuel (80/87 avgas) that is no longer available, so they run unleaded instead. Aviation organizations are actively lobbying against state laws requiring the use of ethanol in mogas.

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Leland

07-15-2006 06:02:14




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 Re: E 85 thingy in reply to Delbert, 07-15-2006 05:47:33  
When they first started blending fuel it was eating up fuel pumps and some carbs but they came up with better parts to solve this , as far as E85 this stuff is corrisive as heck regardless what others think , my S-10 had a plastic fuel tank silcone lined rubber fuel lines and stainless for the rest of the fuel lines . Even the gas stations here that sell it have to spend big bucks to update there equipment to dispense it due to how nasty this stuff is .

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