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Big 4WDs

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Cherry Grower

07-06-2006 19:34:22

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Anybody have much experience with some of the large 4WDs from the 70s? I'm looking into buying something like a Stieger Panther ST310, Versatile 555, White 4-180, etc.

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wayne from wi

07-08-2006 07:34:51

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Re: Big 4WDs in reply to Cherry Grower, 07-06-2006 19:34:22

I have a Steiger Bearcat 270 w/Caterpillar 3306 in it. I have a 13 shank, 16 foot JD #712 disc chisel and a IH #800 9-18's plow for it. On the chisel plow doing 7 acres an hour here in central Wisconsin clay soils it will use about 1 1/4 gallons per acre, sometimes a little less. On the moldboard plow doing 5 1/5 to 6 acres an hour will use 1.5 to 1.7 gallons an acre. Repairs and maintenance is basically oil and filters. Any parts if ever needed are Caterpillar and Spicer-- available from heavy truck parts. Anything that is Steiger specific comes from Case-IH. Hope this helps. Just do not get a tractor with the Cummins 903 V8 or the big V8 as in IH 4586. They are high RPM motors and will take a lot of fuel. Also they expensive motors to repair.

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Cherry Grower

07-07-2006 19:44:10

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Re: Big 4WDs in reply to Cherry Grower, 07-06-2006 19:34:22

Thanks for all the opinions. I"ve been leaning toward a Stieger or Versatile for some of the reasons mentioned: Standard transmission-no fancy powershift, very simple easy to work on, easy to find parts.

This tractor won"t be in regular use but will be very nice for the occasional tasks that our smaller orchard tractors can"t do. It will no doubt pay for itself in no time.

Has anyone had experience using one of these with a blade on the front end? One of the tasks I have is to push a little earth. I would think they should do it no problem given our sandy soil and the fact that our tired Trojan loader that only has an IH 263 cubic inch power plant plus bad trans/clutch does it pretty well.

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4010guy

07-08-2006 13:45:12

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Re: Big 4WDs in reply to Cherry Grower, 07-07-2006 19:44:10

Hi yes about the blade you say, well beleave this or not but a 4wd with a blade will out work a cat but I say BUT if you use it a lot and are not carefull with it your gona tere your tracter up. they work good but just go a littel easy on them. Hope this helps a have a gooden.

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davpal

07-07-2006 21:24:20

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Re: Big 4WDs in reply to Cherry Grower, 07-07-2006 19:44:10

These tractors come in about 4 price ranges too. A new one off the JD lot is about $225000 dollars. A used JD or case IH about 6 years old will set you back about $100,000. A ten year old case IH, Ford Versatile or JD will be about $27,000 dollars and then you go down to the bottom of the barrel where all the "old" junkyard iron is where all brands can be had for about $3000-$10,000 bucks and you pretty much get what you get and good luck! Here you will find all your case 2470, steiger bearcats, cougars, versatile 555, white 4-180, 4-150, massey 1500,1505,1800, 4800. Ih 2 plus 2 tractors, JD 8430, Allis 7550. Quite a selection of used iron that is one step from being in the junkyard. They all have the potential to be a huge money pit. You also have to look around and see where your dealers are. Where I live in michigan the number one tractor you see working fields around here are JD. The second one is believe it or not, probably White. We have an articulated white about every square mile around here. There are 4-150's 180,s and an occasional 4-270, and a huge amount of 2-155,s and 2-105,s. To see a steiger around here is very rare as there are not any dealers. Our neighbor has a Ford FW-60 but that is about it for a ways. He also has a 4-210 white and the ford is parked a lot more than the white. Our versatile dealer went out of business 20 years ago so they are pretty scarce around here now. I haven't seen one working a field in years. I used to run a 895 and it was a good machine but the versatiles and steigers often lack a 3 point hitch and that kills the deal for most people. It was heavy too at about 33,000 pounds and drank about 11-12 gallons of fuel per hour. They are a huge hunk of iron and not the easiest thing to work on either. None of them are, I don't care about the component thing, NONE of them are real easy to work on because of the sheer size. Try splitting one to work on the tranny. As far as engines, I would much rather change a 3208 cat than an 855 cummins. You can pick up a cat at any truck salvage for $2000 bucks. The 855 is a tremendous project to rebuild. I am not buying all the bs on this board about 3208 engines being junk because they are fine. If all v-8 diesels are junk we are in big trouble with all the navistars, and duramax's out there. Being sleevless is a benefit as far as I am concerned while all the other engines with sleeves in them are puking coolant into the oil because of leaky o rings. Thousands of ya out there right! The silver bullet white pulling tractor is making more power than anybody out there in super stock and people have the nerve to call the 3208 bad. I think people should call it the king. It sure is in the winners circle a lot. I was thinking a white 4-180 would work good for you until you mentioned scraping dirt. That kind of eliminated the whites. They are not nearly heavy enough to doze dirt. I think you will be happy with a nice heavy steiger. That 1 inch thick steel frame will handle a dozer very well and the price on a used one should be pretty reasonable. Good luck with it. Its going to be fun. Later.

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John Hagen

07-08-2006 07:45:51

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Re: Big 4WDs in reply to davpal, 07-07-2006 21:24:20

". I am not buying all the bs on this board about 3208 engines being junk because they are fine. If all v-8 diesels are junk we are in big trouble with all the navistars, and duramax's out there. Being sleevless is a benefit as far as I am concerned "

Well,then were in big trouble.

Here is a real life farming experience that soured me on the 3208 cat and any other sleeveless diesel.
In the late 70's I was farming with my brother inlaw who had a Steiger tractor with a 3208 cat engine. This was the only tractor he had big enough to pull his seeding rig. On the second day of seeding,his 3208 seized an injector which scored one cylinder. With no sleeves in that engine,the tractor had to be trucked to the cat dealer where the engine had to be totally disassembled,ruining the other 7 cylinders,so the damaged one could be sleeved and the engine reassembled with all new parts. He was out thousands of $$ and more important,without the use of his tractor for two weeks during the critical seeding time. He had to rent another tractor at $ 100 per hour to seed his crop. All this while I was thinking,If that had happened to my old 6-71 Detroit powered 4wd tractor,In 1 day we could have removed the head and pan and replaced the dry sleeve/piston assy in our farm shop at a cost of $200 and been back in the field planting our crops the next day.

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Joe-Bob/IN

07-07-2006 19:03:55

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Re: Big 4WDs in reply to Cherry Grower, 07-06-2006 19:34:22

Steigers are component tractors. Easy to get replacement parts. Solid solid solid, they were built for one thing and one thing only, to pull and when it gets nasty to pull a bit harder... kinda like the good ole Case tractors. I wouldn't worry too much about the Cat V8's, they are strong engines regardless of what others say. Just keep the rpms up and make'er screm and she will last long enough. Not sure about the Versatiles but there used to be a lot of them running in the area. Even though I am a Case man my vote would be for the Steiger if you want a simple and strong tractor.

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BLUEPAINT

07-07-2006 21:29:30

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Re: Big 4WDs in reply to Joe-Bob/IN, 07-07-2006 19:03:55

Dont get me wrong i'm not knocking the 3208 cat i've got 3 , In a tractor , Tandem truck and in a combine they are aggressive little animals and mine have not given any problems .
lots of power,good starters and not bad for fuel consumption.
Although they are known to suffer from head trouble and main bearings, But as stated keep the rpm's up keep the rad clean and don't load er down too much .

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Glen in TX

07-07-2006 08:52:03

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Re: Big 4WDs in reply to Cherry Grower, 07-06-2006 19:34:22

#1 what does fuel cost you today? #2 what will parts & maintainance cost? They are old tractors and engines are old and not fuel effecient so it will cost $$$$ to run them.

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BLUEPAINT

07-07-2006 09:16:30

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Re: Big 4WDs in reply to Glen in TX, 07-07-2006 08:52:03

A big tractor like this may use more fuel but it will do the work in a fraction of the time ,
If the job has to be done and you only have a small time window to do it fuel is not really an issue you have no choice.
In comparison running costs are good , Our 300 hp tractors are much more reliable than the 100 hp ones , much stronger and less complicated and maintenance can be done yourself eliminating expensive mechanics fees.
I changed a waterpump on the 210 hp cat and it was cheaper than the one on my 50 hp ford .

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BLUEPAINT

07-07-2006 08:42:55

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Re: Big 4WDs in reply to Cherry Grower, 07-06-2006 19:34:22

With these old girls you should keep it simple , No v8's , Stick with 6 cylinder cummins or even cat , Powershift and auto transmissions can give way more problems than standard ( Stay away from white or case or allis ), Outboard planetaries are a good idea too.
Steiger and versatile are your best bet although the popular models will cost you more ( steiger st 310-325 or versatile 895-936 ) .
But i do have a 1975 steiger bearcat with a cat v8 and i must admit for light work it's been good they are strong tractors but treat that engine with care .

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Don L C

07-07-2006 08:04:11

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Re: Big 4WDs in reply to Cherry Grower, 07-06-2006 19:34:22

There is a White 4-150 On "PHOTO ADS" ..$6000

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Jon Hagen

07-06-2006 22:59:41

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Re: Big 4WDs in reply to Cherry Grower, 07-06-2006 19:34:22

I have been around them most of my life and have run Steiger and Versatile for the last 30 years.
Of everything out there,Steiger and Versatile have always had the most simple and reliable driveline with good parts support. Stay away from anything with a V8 diesel especially the little Cat 3208 style engines.They are a sleeveless cheapo that will eat up the crank and bearings in 2500-3000 hrs of heavy lugging tillage work. The Cummins V8's were all high rpm(3000) and hard on oil/fuel
The best engine they used was the 6 cyl Cummins 855. They are reliable to 10,000 plus hrs and are a slow turning(2100),cheap running and easy/cheap engine to repair.

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4010guy

07-06-2006 21:47:12

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Re: Big 4WDs in reply to Cherry Grower, 07-06-2006 19:34:22

Well from the exspearence i have had when your dealing with old 4wds it is way differnt that older 2wds as in the old 4wds just seem to fateage out ant turn into money pits like you cant beleave. if you can do all your own fixen and live ware you can buy lots of used parts it helps but dont plan on putting on to many hours as they will put you in the poor house. just my opinion and i do wish you the best of luck.--ps. and do stay away from the cummings 555 v6..and just for thot the ol masseys were not to populur when new but seem to hang together perty fair but not as good as the versitile. good day.

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davpal

07-06-2006 20:46:44

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Re: Big 4WDs in reply to Cherry Grower, 07-06-2006 19:34:22

I bought an old 4-150 white last year and like it pretty well. I think they will last a long time if you treat them well and don't try to till up 2000 acres a year with them. Cat 3208 is strong and very decent on fuel. Don't try to pull outrageous sized equipment. 6 bottom plow, 23 foot disk, 7-9 tooth chistle plow, or they can pull a heck of a no-till planter and not break a sweat. I like the whites because they turn on a dime, the cabs are acceptable, they are heavy and are capable of amazing pulling power, can get in fields before in the spring and when the fall gets a little greasy. You can pull a huge grain cart, gravity boxes, pull out the combine if it gets stuck. Its like having an insurance policy on your farm, like a backup unit. I paid less for mine than my polaris quad! ($5400) Delivered, trucked from Iowa to Michigan. Advice, if you get a white, go for the 4-180. I should have, has planetaries on axles, Hi-low trans, no powershift problems. It is an upgraded 4-150. 4-210 is again saddled with a poweshift that could give you problems although built heavier at the hinge than the 4-150 or the 4-180 and has the heavier rearends out of the 2-155 tractors instead of the 2-105 that the 4-150 and 4-180 use. Cab on 4-210 is a little more hi tech inside and shifters are rail style on the right side of the driver. I never liked the way they shifted or the way the 2-155 shifted either. Gate shifter can get jammed but they are still ok. I think you are making a good choice buying an old articulated beast. They are cheap, built heavy, expensive to repair!, but after you use one in a field in marginal conditions you will love the pulling power. It is unreal. Good luck with any of the beasts you end up with. There are some pics of mine in tractor photos under mid michigan white 4-150.

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hardscrabble

07-06-2006 19:49:43

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Re: Big 4WDs in reply to Cherry Grower, 07-06-2006 19:34:22

My brother had a White 4-180 for a few years (before he bailed out of farming). For as odd looking as it was, it was actually a well built machine. He initially had problems with the 3208 Cat engine, but other than that it performed flawlessly. The tractor had enough built-in weight (20,800 lbs) to eliminate the need for added ballast. I spent many hours on it myself, and it was a nice riding machine, to boot.

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Dan-IA

07-06-2006 20:03:42

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Re: Big 4WDs in reply to hardscrabble, 07-06-2006 19:49:43

I got a white 4-150. You almost never see those tires slip, and as a result they still look brand new after years of service. My biggest problem is a continuing issue on the hydraulics...I had a leak, so I replaced the hose. Still haven't figured it out, but I'm about ready to take it to a professional to figure it out, since I'm not having much luck.

But I have to say, I thoroughly enjoy this tractor. If you're not used to articulate steering, it'll take a bit to get used to. But it grows on you quickly, and becomes a pleasure to run.

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Jonfarmer

07-06-2006 20:02:20

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Re: Big 4WDs in reply to hardscrabble, 07-06-2006 19:49:43

I must say I like those old White articulators too. I can't say I've used one in the field, but but I have moved them around for an auction house, the most common model I saw was the 4-210. They seemed like good machines to me. If 180hp is what you are looking for in an articulator, and you want one thats cheap, you might take a look at the Allis Chalmers 7580, love the exhaust note that 426 gives off, but they are very noisy compaired to a White.

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