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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Best way to improve my sandy soil -Kinda long

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Dave from MN

06-16-2006 15:20:51




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Yeah , I know I been posting alot, about a little. But hey, I got lots going on and this is the year. I have pretty sandy soil, about 70% of the farm any way. It has been rotated corn/soybeans for the last 20+ years, overloaded with chicken manure ( about 4-6" thick every 4 years), puonded with herbicides. I want to stop renting out and build up the soil so I can get a good crop off it my self. I stopped spreading manure this past year and am selling it and will do a test plot based on county soil and water dist recommendations. They seam awful busy right now so I am asking ya all this. When the guys RR beans get off his fall I was gonna drill in Rye right after, and from what I know I should leave it grow through spring and plow it under just as it starts heading out. Then I was gonna seed in oats and and let it grow and that folowing december spread the chicken manure to whatever SWCD says I should and compost or sell the rest. Is this a good plan or not. Am I better off just putting her in hay and farm hat for a few years to build up some good sod ground?

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RodInNS

06-17-2006 14:36:30




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 Re: Best way to improve my sandy soil -Kinda long in reply to Dave from MN, 06-16-2006 15:20:51  
Drive the manure to it until the p2o5 gets to be a problem. Unless it's had a lot of manure over the years, give it more, and more and more. It won't be a problem until the phosphorus levels get high... and depending on where you're at, that may not be frowned upon so much....

Rod



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Allan In NE

06-17-2006 04:42:39




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 Re: Best way to improve my sandy soil -Kinda long in reply to Dave from MN, 06-16-2006 15:20:51  
Dave,

I agree with Paul. Load after load, year after year of cow manure.

Allan



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paul

06-16-2006 22:26:13




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 Re: Best way to improve my sandy soil -Kinda long in reply to Dave from MN, 06-16-2006 15:20:51  
You would do better to get a legume in there with the rye if you can seed it early fall, or else in with the oats is spring - but you will be planting oats kinda late.

I'm not sure about cutting back on the manure, I think you are going the wrong way, you want more, & let the rye recylce it....

--->Paul



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riverbend

06-16-2006 21:22:02




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 Re: Best way to improve my sandy soil -Kinda long in reply to Dave from MN, 06-16-2006 15:20:51  
Your plan sounds good, but you might want to consider a few changes. Plant about 20 pounds per acre of hairy vetch with your rye. It is a winter annual and will fix some nitrogen (~100+ pounds per acre). Buy local seed (Buckwheat Growers in Wadena (sp?)), some of the imported stuff is not winter hardy here.

The ideal time to seed rye and vetch is when the soybean leaves turn yellow. You can just broadcast the rye. The falling leaves will give it enough cover to germinate. Drilling is the best, but you would want to get that done by the middle of September. Late August would be better, and you might get away with going as late as mid October.

Depending on where you are, it might be too dry to get a good crop of oats after plowing the rye. Sorghum X Sudan is a warm season grass, and will grow tons of organic matter. Water might still be a limiting factor. Drilling in a crop of soybeans will fix some N for the sudax and make a better stand.

Get all the chicken manure that you can and compost it. Composted manure is much more stable and builds humus much faster than raw manure.

Taking a hay crop won't improve your soil as fast as spending a year or two actively building it up. It will take between 5 and 7 years for the biological activity to recover.

Greg Reynolds
Riverbend Farm
Delano, MN

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davpal

06-16-2006 21:17:21




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 Re: Best way to improve my sandy soil -Kinda long in reply to Dave from MN, 06-16-2006 15:20:51  
I would get a shovel and dig down and see how far the sand goes down. I have heard of people having clay under the sand that is a very good thing to mix with the sand. You have to have a big tractor with a subsoiler that can go down a couple of feet and pull up some different dirt to mix with yours. Just an idea. Good luck.



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Leland

06-16-2006 18:49:46




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 Re: Best way to improve my sandy soil -Kinda long in reply to Dave from MN, 06-16-2006 15:20:51  
If you can get it put yard waste on it the grass and leaves will build it fast ,and a local farmer here gets about 7.00 a yard to dispose of it to boot .



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woodache

06-16-2006 15:52:38




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 Legumes not grasses Re: Best way to improve my san in reply to Dave from MN, 06-16-2006 15:20:51  
Cow peas also known as Black eyed peas or farm for Alfalfa hey. They build up the soil by fixing the nitrogen instead of using it like grasses. Grasses of any kind deplete nitrogen. But if sand is the problem maybe nothing can fix that. But the lack of humis or biologal matter can be fixes with Cowpeas this can be mixed with sorgum that gives a stem to climb, this stuff is turned in green the tonnage per acres varies on the water it gets. If you want to doit for several years plow in with seed in pods then reseeding will not be requried, Note there are low water virities of this seed.

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David in England

06-16-2006 15:51:03




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 Re: Best way to improve my sandy soil -Kinda long in reply to Dave from MN, 06-16-2006 15:20:51  
Hi, several years ago I sold grass seed for a Seed Company to agricultural merchants and custom mixed grass seed mixtures to suit individual farms. A very successful farmer near here who grows grain and big crops of potatoes wanted to improve his very light sandy soil to give it some "body" and add humus.
We sold him a mixture of 22 Pounds COCKSFOOT + 2 Pounds WHITE CLOVER.
The Cocksfoot is a corse grass (tufty and unpalletable when it grows long) but puts dowm roots 2 feet deep in 1 year. The Clover adds nitrogen to the soil.
He cut the mixture 2 or 3 times a year when it was short & still paletable for silage. Then Left the grass to grow long and chopped it, plowed it in for mulch ready for next crop in rotation.
If you need the botanical name for Cocksfoot email me and I will look it up for you.
Regards David

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