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What's wrong with Chevy/GMC diesel pickups?

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Richard Scott

01-11-2006 16:46:35

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First, I don't need something to pull much of a load--just haul my tractor once in awhile and maybe a small travel trailer or 5th wheel, hopefully less than 8,000 lbs. (haven't bought one yet). So I don't need the power of a Dodge or Ford.

What I want is a full size p/u that will get decent mileage when I am not pulling, which will be 98% of the time. And I don't want to spend much: $6-7,000 is in my comfort zone.

So I see ads for mid or late 90's Chevy & GMC diesels & wonder, what's so bad about them? Are they terribly unreliable? Or do they just not measure up to the Fords & Dodges in the pulling department?

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Farminlineman

01-12-2006 18:44:55

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Re: What's wrong with Chevy/GMC diesel pickups? in reply to Richard Scott, 01-11-2006 16:46:35

Ive had the same 1995 Chevy k2500 in the same amount of time my brother has gone through 3 Dodges! All with the 5.9... Ill take the ride of my chevy anyday over the ride of a ford or dodge. THEY RIDE LIKE YOUR ON A STONE WALL! My 6.5 turbo gets somewheres in the area of 18 mpg with a full load in my cattle trailer, and 20-22 without. Ive got 230000 miles on it, with no major problems. Go with a GM, youll like it better, especially a GMC, theyre dressed up more than a chevy (creature comforts).

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Brad Wright of MO

01-12-2006 13:39:56

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Re: What's wrong with Chevy/GMC diesel pickups? in reply to Richard Scott, 01-11-2006 16:46:35

There isnt anything wrong with a chevy pickup. I use a 91 chevy 2500 gas manual transmission and havent had as many problems on it as my son has had on his 2005 F350 7.3 litre powerstroke diesel. He has owned it for a less than a year and I have had my pickup for 14 years.

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thejdman01

01-12-2006 06:36:13

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Re: What's wrong with Chevy/GMC diesel pickups? in reply to Richard Scott, 01-11-2006 16:46:35

THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH A GM DIESEL. I have had many many many gm diesels and still do. I have a 96 wife drives a 98 both 6.5's. IF maintained they are both fine. The only thing I recommend is the heat sink (aobut 150 bucks) for the pmd and youll be fine. That is the only thing I have ever done to the newer 6.5's we have now other hten oil changes. Mine is still running origional serp belt(needs changed) and origional hoses at 300000. The horse dodo about the oil changes throw that to the wind. I run Valvoline Cummins synthetic blue oil in the wifes and I run Amsoil in mine. Run 1 year or 20,000 miles per oil changes never had any problems (not alot of stopp and go driving here but quite a bit hard pulling). I put amsoil in mine then local shop started carrying hte Valvoline so when we bought hers put that in hers and jsut never bothered changing either of them to the other. I change the filter about every 3 months (cheap insurance dont want them to plug and go through bypass). Also, on the wifes whose truck just has 140,000 miles i put a Spinner 2 oil filter on it (oil actually spins syntrifical fource forces all of the crud to the walls of the filter and oil runs back down. Amazing hte crud you scrape out of the canister. The 6.2's were not power horses but were good strong reliable motors. Dads 6.2 was very hard starting but not sure all of the glow plugs were working and dad just cussed about it and plugged it in. Started plugged in. Reason I say I odn tthink they worked (without actually testing htem) Once started glow plugs never cycled and white smoke for a long loong time. Mine when started glow plugs would cycle and white smoke was there but not sooo bad. Dads had 2 motors 4 transmissions at 500000. Got a new one due to accident. Mine had 1 transmission at 409,000 miles and i got rid of mine because of hte cancer it had. My trans was only a 3 on the tree but we got along. The reason dads truck had so many problems with trans etc is they were farm trucks. You start going up hills with anhydrous wagons clutch slipping back down and start over. You never go taround to fixing it till afer harvest or planting. Also pulling grain wagons 2 was never any picnick. The 6.2's werent power houses but always got the job done and we were never interested in going 50 w/wagons or pulling htem over mountains. Just up some fairly steep driveways and we had some land down below and a steep driveway they always got them done. I hten traded mine for a 92 that had 300000 and hten traded it in for the 96 I currently drive (only reason traded the 92 is the guy who sold the 96 i knew well and good price and great maintenance record. I also agree the 3.73 will give you better milage quite a bit better on those empty runs. Go price some heui injectors for a 94 ford then price them for a gm.

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Mike M

01-12-2006 05:29:18

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Re: What's wrong with Chevy/GMC diesel pickups? in reply to Richard Scott, 01-11-2006 16:46:35

I forgot to answer your question about are GM diesels that bad.

In my experiences they are the worst ever built. I'd rank them cummins #1,ford 7.3/power stroke #2 and gm #3

jdemaris is about the only one I ever hear who had that kinda luck with them. I had a totally different experience with them. 6.2 diesel was almost the biggest piece of crap ever built !!! the 5.7 WAS the biggest !!!!! !!!!! !!!

If I ever think about buying another piece of GM crap someone come and kick me in the behind !

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jdemaris

01-12-2006 06:29:04

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Re: What's wrong with Chevy/GMC diesel pickups? in reply to Mike M, 01-12-2006 05:29:18

I generally agree with your ranking of engines if worked hard. I love the older Cummins engines - but I'm not real impressed with the new ones. I've seen several of the HO 5.9s with problems associated with pump and head-bolt failures. I drove a new Dodge when they first introduced the PU with the 5.9. Every time I stomped on the accelerator the driver's door sprung open from the cab and frame flexing. It was pretty funny. It did it consistently. Ends up the engine had more torque than the Dodge frame would handle. So, in the first years Dodge had to play catch-up beefing up the frame and transmissions with many recalls. Now, as far as me having unusual "good luck" with 6.2s? It's not luck and it's not unusual, just using a little knowledge. I've got two that I bought off the dealer's lot as "junk trade-ins" and both were supposed to be in need of new engines. In both cases bad injectors made them knock and the dealer assumed the engines were blown. I've also seen many IDI GMs and Fords get ruined with overuse of ether instead of fixing the glow-plugs. I know several people still driving their 6.2s with very high miles - but in my area - sheet-metal has a lifespan of about 10 years. So, most stop getting used due to rust - not engine failure. My neighbor who runs and owns a saw mill still has, and drives his 82 one-ton 6.2 4WD pickup although there is almost no metal left on it. Since then he's bought a new IH powered Ford and Chevy with the Isuzu diesel - but he still drives and plows snow with the 82 - and he tells me the odometer has turned over three times in it. I don't think he'll ever part with it until the frame breaks in half (that did happen to me recently with my 69 Power Wagon). I'm not sure if you are giving equal "negative" acclaim to the 6.2/6.5 and the 5.7 - but one has nothing to do with the other. The 350 cubic inch 5.7 was an Oldsmobile gas engine that G.M. converted to diesel. In cold weather areas it did not hold up and I worked on many new trucks under warranty. In fact, at one time, we had as many Chevy and GMC trucks in our Deere shop as we did tractors - since the local GM dealer didn't know how to work on them. Strangely though, at the same time I knew several people down south that claimed they weren't having the same problems. So maybe cold starting added to the early head-gasket failures? The 379 cubic inch 6.2 diesels (and later 6.5s) were totally new engines, designed from the ground up by Detroit Diesel, in contract for it's parent company at the time, General Motors. Now, AM makes the engines for the military. I haven't heard much about the 6.2s or 6.5s blowing up in military use unless a missle hits them.

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Mike M

01-12-2006 07:16:13

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Re: What's wrong with Chevy/GMC diesel pickups? in reply to jdemaris, 01-12-2006 06:29:04

Well I had one of those "totally" redesigned 6.2
engines in a 1983 k10 from brand new. Between all the oil leaks and antifreeze leaks external and internal. Had head gaskets replaced 2 x by maybe 40-50,000 miles. Somewhere around 30-40,000 miles the rear main leaked so bad I finally dropped the pan to fix it. I got very dissappointed. I owned this thing from day 1 never let the oil go longer than 3,000 miles keep it pluged in for cold starts and when I pulled the rear main it looked very rough surface. More than likely dirt in it from brand new. Then to pull out the shell and see it marked UNDERSIZED on a brand new truck this took the cake ! Somewhere around 50,000 miles it started blowing compression into the coolant. Pulled the engine and put a 327 in the truck. It never ran better and only lost a few miles per gallon. I still had numerous other stuff go bad. I finally got smart and sold it and then bought a 1996 ram 2500 with a 360 gas that allready had 80,000 miles on it. I now have 160,000 on this truck and it has been the best I've ever had. Still rattle and squeak free ! No oil leaks either !!! I'm glad you had good luck with your GM's or maybe you just like working on your truck all the time. GM is not my favorite company or product.

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jdemaris

01-12-2006 10:30:52

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Re: What's wrong with Chevy/GMC diesel pickups? in reply to Mike M, 01-12-2006 07:16:13

Sounds like my 69 W200 Dodge Power Wagon. Absolutely the worst truck I've ever owned or driven - but I still have it. The doors literally fell off at 30K miles, springs fell apart, Dana 44 front axle kept falling apart, transfer case broke a shaft, intermidiate driveshaft was constantly falling apart, I've replaced the entire frame twice, 318 engine needed a valve job at 60K miles, etc. etc. Best thing that ever happend to it was in 1979 when a State trooper crashed into me and knocked the cab right off the truck (with me in it). I then replaced it with a 71 GMC cab which is still on it. I've heard similar bad reports like you have described with G.M. and the Ford IH engines but I don't know what to attribute it all to. I'm sure in certain cases - someone at the factory has a "bad day" and a crap engine leaves the factory. I worked on the Ford assembly line in the early 70s and we had many "bad days." I have seen many diesels, though, in trucks and tractors that started out with a small simple problem, and eventually got ruined by people working on them that had little to no experience or mechanical skill. I'm constantly looking at used trucks on Ebay and it's pretty amazing how many Ford and Chevy diesel trucks there are for sale - with 150K miles and on their 2nd or 3rd engines - makes you wonder what the real story is. I don't like working on trucks per s�, especially if it means combatting bad engineering. So, NO, I don't own Chevy's because I love fixing them. I started out buying G.M. diesels thanks to what I regard as an unearned bad reputation that made them cheap to buy. Back in the early 80s, I beleived a lot of the bad stuff I was hearing and starting buying spare engines whenever I had the chance. Well - at present - I've got six "extra" engines and I've never had to use one yet. And now, the Chevys aren't cheap anymore. In fact, I guess none of them are. And, just for the record, I'm not a close-minded Chevy fan. If I was, I wouldn't own any Fords. Also - I still have my 94 Chevy AWD Astrovan - and not counting my Dodge Power Wagon, this van is the worst piece of crap I've ever laid eyes on. This thing breaks downs sitting in the driveway without even being used and has some amazingly bad engineering in the AWD system and the CPI fuel-injection system. We bought it years ago as a spare "backup" vehicle - it was a big mistake.

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Tim...Ok

01-12-2006 05:16:35

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Re: What's wrong with Chevy/GMC diesel pickups? in reply to Richard Scott, 01-11-2006 16:46:35

Why rule out the Cummins?? great mileage,they had mechanical injection up thru 97,so theres alot of them out there that are super easy to work on..yeah injector pumps are expensive,but that was never an issue on them..never heard of a 12V pump going out,though I'm sure it "could" happen.. I've seen WAY too many of the chevy's that needed a long block at 100,000 miles.
HTH,
Tim

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Mike M

01-12-2006 05:12:11

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Re: What's wrong with Chevy/GMC diesel pickups? in reply to Richard Scott, 01-11-2006 16:46:35

I don't see how you will need a diesel for what you want to do. Higher fuel costs, way more for oil and filter changes. I got a 1996 dodge with a 360 gas and it will do everything you need to do.

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jdemaris

01-11-2006 20:06:27

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Re: What's wrong with Chevy/GMC diesel pickups? in reply to Richard Scott, 01-11-2006 16:46:35

If you were buying a truck for heavy trailer pulling and making a living with it - none of the following applies. It probably makes sense, in that case, to buy a newer truck - use it hard for X amount of miles, and then sell it before you have to start fixing it. But, if you are on a budget, want a truck that gets decent all-around fuel mileage, and - since it's used - you want replacement parts to be priced reasonable - then here are my experiences.
I've got seven diesel trucks - five Chevys and two Fords. Years from 1982 - 1994. I won't buy any newer since after 94, electronic injection controls became necessary to meet the newer emmission restrictions. Personally, for an all around truck I love the 6.2 and 6.5 G.M.s. Parts are cheap, they are rugged and reliable. My 87 just turned 500,000 miles and the engine has never been apart. It has had several injector changes as maintenance and many water pumps. My 7.3 Ford has 220,000 and my 6.9 Ford has 170,000 -and both of them have also been very reliable - but hogs on fuel when compared to the GMs. If I'm pulling a trailer with over 6-7000 lbs. on it, I use the Fords. But, when running half empty and/or not pulling a trailer? The Fords get the same mileage empty, loaded, etc. - an average of around 14 MPG with the extra cab, long bed, 4WD, and heavy axles and springs. Now, the Chevys do much better for light loads. My 82 1/2 ton 4WD has gotten 25 MPG on a flat highway - compared to the same driving with my 6.9 Ford - empty that got 14.5 MPG. My 3/4 ton Suburban 4WD gets 21 at best and averages 18. I have also heard some impressive figures with newer trucks - but you have to take into consideration the purchase price and the expense of parts for the newer trucks. I buy injectors for my Ford of GM IDI diesels for around $15 apiece. Waterpumps cost around $35. Try pricing the same parts for the newer diesels and you'll have a stroke. The optimum year for either a Ford or Chevy/GM - in my opionion is 94 - they both have turbos and mechanical injection. After 94, civilian trucks go to electronic injection controls (the military GMs stayed with mechanical). The new trucks ?? If you're willing to spend $40,000 on a truck and then pay very high prices for maintenance and repairs - then it seems to me fuel mileage is the least of your concerns. I've got one neighbor who recently bought a new Chevy with the Japanese Isuzu diesel V-8. Chevy/GM stopped making their Detroit-Diesel designed 6.2-6.5). The best he's gotten so far is 17 MPG empty with a wind at his back. His older 92 Dodge with the Cummins can get 19 MPG and the engine has been great (perhaps not the rest of the truck, though). He also found out real fast that the new truck will NOT run on farm fuel. I almost bought a 98 Ford with a Powerstroke DI engine a while back. It ran great but had 220,000 miles on it. I checked around and when I found out what parts cost I decided against it. Try pricing an injection pump, injectors, water pump, etc. and you'll see what I mean. In my mind, it's not worth it once things start needing replacement - unless at the outset you buy the truck very cheap.

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Bob

01-11-2006 21:29:22

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Re: What's wrong with Chevy/GMC diesel pickups? in reply to jdemaris, 01-11-2006 20:06:27

JD, I agree with most all you said, PROVIDING he is not buying it for day-in, day-out heavy pulling.

One correction, 1993 was the last year (with possible rare exceptions) for mechanical fuel injection on GM diesels.

1/2 and 3/4 tons had EFI, I'm not positive about the heavier GVW units.

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jdemaris

01-12-2006 05:45:02

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Re: What's wrong with Chevy/GMC diesel pickups? in reply to Bob, 01-11-2006 21:29:22

I've worked on many light-duty 94s that have mechancial injection with the DB2-4911 Roosamaster/Stanadyne pump. But . . . I don't know if they were original or replacement/repairs. When G.M. began using the electronically controlled pumps in 94,there were so many failures that many repair shops simply converted them back to full mechanical. The military vehicles still use the mechanical and still use the 6.5. Those diesel Hummers over in Irag aren't using Isuzu diesels. Another company is making the 6.5 engines now. As I recall, G.M. didn't know what to do with the early pump failures since it was - more-or-less a warranty problem with Stanadyne/Roosamaster. So - for quite a while the alledged "fix" was to replace the entire pump - which was rediculous. And, it seemed that, at first, the replacement electronic pumps were no better than the originals. If somebody had to spend "out of pocket", in my opinon, the money was better spent on installing the fully mechanical setup. You can buy a rebuilt DB2 mechancial pump in the $400 range, but the electronic DS4 is often over a $1000. Seems there was a class-action lawsuit against G.M. and Stanadyne, but I don't know what became of it. Those trucks with the electronic pumps still have mechanical indirect injection - it's just the pump that is electronically controlled. Ford had the transition from IDI to DI in 94 which I also find confusing. I've seen some 94s with both so I don't know when the change was official.

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Bob

01-12-2006 07:17:06

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Re: What's wrong with Chevy/GMC diesel pickups? in reply to jdemaris, 01-12-2006 05:45:02

The 6.5's are now made by GEP... General Engine Products.

The interesting part is that they do not have a foundry, and they "farm out" the casting to Navistar. They even have the IH/Navistar diamond logo cast into the block. True.

Of course, Navistar makes the power strokes for Ford, and also, the Cummins 5.9's were devloped, and co-manufactured by Consolidated Diesel, a partnership of Case/IH and Cummins.

So, the newer 6.5's, the Powerstrokes, and the Cummins 5.9 all have some history in common.

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Eldon (WA )

01-11-2006 19:48:01

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Re: What's wrong with Chevy/GMC diesel pickups? in reply to Richard Scott, 01-11-2006 16:46:35

I had a nice '96 GMC diesel that I bought with 56k on it. It had a new injector pump on it. It was a nice truck and flawless till it got near 140k then it started dying on me...kinda scary in the middle of winter in BFE Nevada. Turns out the FSD (fuel solenoid driver) on the pump gets worn and then sticks (most dealers just charge $2000 for a new pump). I replaced mine with an external mount with heat sink and everything was fine. Decided to sell the truck and found out it was worthless as a trade and finally got $7000 under KBB from another GMC diesel owner. Bought a brand new '01 Dodge Cummins HO 6sp and never looked back! Sure was nice to have a truck that didn't lay down and die when pulling a 6000# trailer....or constantly shift when pulling a load into the wind....or turn on the heat full blast on a summer day when towing up a hill.....or running through red lights at the bottom of a mountain because the brakes faded away. Nope...bought a real truck, real suspension, real engine, real lugnuts!

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Andrew from KY

01-11-2006 17:48:57

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Re: What's wrong with Chevy/GMC diesel pickups? in reply to Richard Scott, 01-11-2006 16:46:35

First of all if you're going to buy a diesel pickup and you're not planning on doing a lot of hauling, I'd look for one with a 3.73 rear end gear. That will get you better fuel mileage than a 4.10. Otherwise you might as well buy a gas. That being said, the Cummins motor has WAY more torque and the 7.3 Powerstroke has a lot more HP and torque as well. The Chevy 6.5 is a fairly reliable engine, I know a few people that have had them. I think that when they went from a mechanical injector pump to an electronic one they had a few problems but I think that's all I've heard about. I think people just talk them down becuase they don't have the power of the other diesels that are out there.

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buckva

01-11-2006 17:43:27

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Re: What's wrong with Chevy/GMC diesel pickups? in reply to Richard Scott, 01-11-2006 16:46:35

This sure is a different spin on puttin down a Chevy. Really won't go there as them Chevys are probably ok. Now any ford 150 with a camper/towin package will do what you want and probably be in your price range.96 and earlier and not the diesel.

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chris sweetland

01-11-2006 17:09:11

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Re: What's wrong with Chevy/GMC diesel pickups? in reply to Richard Scott, 01-11-2006 16:46:35

well the fords arnt good on fuel and a dodges arnt good on transmissins but the gm trucks are good on fuel and the engines last the 84 6.3l diesel the dump truck here on the farm has 278,000mi and starts much easier than the 88 f-350 with 57,000mi plus the 350 has gotten 2 trannys and a rear end

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the preacher

01-11-2006 16:52:13

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Re: What's wrong with Chevy/GMC diesel pickups? in reply to Richard Scott, 01-11-2006 16:46:35

They really can"t measure up to the power stroke or cummins when it comes to pulling power or reliability. They don"t seem to last as long, or stand up to the punishment. For what you will be doing, it sounds fine. Just watch the mileage, the 6.5 diesel won"t usually last more than about 250-300,000 miles. Just my opinion, but iv"e worked on them all, and you can"t beat a cummins.

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