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Drilling or welding old steel !!

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Alberta Mike

06-26-2004 13:07:07




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Often wondered why I often have problems drilling out or welding old steel, say 60 year-old stuff. Even if it's cleaned up it often welds poorly with a lot of spatter and blobs. I have sometimes burned out drill bits when drilling holes. What's the reason for these problems?




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kraigWY

06-27-2004 06:32:38




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 Re: Drilling or welding old steel !! in reply to Alberta Mike, 06-26-2004 13:07:07  
Mike, I run into the same problem using old water pipe and sucker rod from wells. The carbon content isn't really what you call constant. I would wear out drills and blades for my metal cutting band saw. Now I one use those carbide tipped drill bits and a cut off saw. When your making gates and such you don't care about the hardness of the finished product but you don't want to screw up your tools either.

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Ibby

06-27-2004 02:48:57




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 Re: Drilling or welding old steel !! in reply to Alberta Mike, 06-26-2004 13:07:07  
The age of 60 years caught my attention. That would make it during WWII, when they recycled anything with an iron content to feed the war machine. Could it possibly mean there was a lot of variation between batches,or even within a batch? For sure, I'd guess there wasn't a lot of quality control - the object was to produce, produce, produce. It also stands to reason that the science of steel production wasn't advanced as it is today. No real knowledge here, but some educated guesses

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Carla

06-26-2004 14:53:24




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 Re: Drilling or welding old steel !! in reply to Alberta Mike, 06-26-2004 13:07:07  
Hi, Mike,

Well, the fact is that the age of any particular piece of steel just isn't a meaningful factor in its machinability or weldability..... the "analysis" and "heat-treat" are the factors which make the difference.

So....I'm going to take a guess that by "old steel" you mean miscellaneous oddments of material you have on hand, which could range from common mild steel, to various and sundry parts which are one or another high-strength heat-treated material.

Drilling mild steel is pretty obvious, actually....you can find plenty of information on the internet about how to correctly grind your drill points, speeds and feeds, coolants, etc., etc.

Drilling, turning, or milling heat-treated material is a different tin of worms entirely.

There are quite a few different steels which will be found as "salvaged" material. Old truck axles, for example, will often be "4140", a chrome-moly steel, with "40 points" carbon, and "through hardened", which can be drilled or turned readily enough if one is careful.

Occasionally, one will find a part which is "case hardened", a process which imparts a "hard skin" to the steel, leaving a softer core. (old mauser receivers are a good example) It is possible to drill case-hardened steel if you first grind through the outer "skin" to expose the soft steel core....the "case" varies with the application....often it is only a few thousandths deep, sometimes, on heavy gearing, as much as 1/16"

When drilling some of the hard, tough steels you may find, such as, for example, "Max-el", the "secret" is to use a best quality drill, (any of the standard American makes, preferably "cobalt" flavoured) with a correctly ground point, with, if anything, a bit lesser point angle than the standard 59deg., run slowly, and in a good heavy, rigid drill press.

The common cheap drills and drill presses sold for woodworking and very light-duty metalworking simply will not do.....

Use a suitable cutting-oil. My own preference is to mix one part of best quality black "sulfur" cutting oil with one part of "Rapid-Tap", a commercial tapping oil.

Feed pressure on the drill is all-important when drilling hardened alloy steels, or the stainlesses. Allowing the drill to "rub" or "skate" on chrome-nickel steels will "work-harden" or "glaze" the surface of the steel, so you must apply a heavy feed pressure to keep the drill cutting at all times (reduce the feed ever so gently as the drill comes through the workpiece, obviously)

Trying to weld steels of unknown analysis is fraught with problems.....it can be extremely difficult to get a good sound weld on some of these steels, even using a "TIG" or "argon-arc", and 316 stls filler-rod.

It will sometimes happen that one can get a "pretty" weld, but the part will fail in the "transition-zone" between the parent metal and the weld deposit..... "TIG-brazing" will sometimes work well when welding does not.....but every job is its own individual situation....

If you haven't a lot of background in welding, I'd suggest, if I may, that you stay with mild steel for weldments, or, if you must try welding alloy steels, make certain that no one will be hurt if the weldment fails in service....

cheers

Carla

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sid

06-27-2004 06:44:14




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 Re: Re: Drilling or welding old steel !! in reply to Carla, 06-26-2004 14:53:24  
Thanks for the time it took to answer this question in such detail. I know what I am going to try next time I start digging out of the scrap pile.



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buickanddeere

06-26-2004 20:24:02




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 Re: Re: Drilling or welding old steel !! in reply to Carla, 06-26-2004 14:53:24  
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't there at time until about WWI when steel was just steel? It wasn't alloyed with much, just poured out of the blast furnace? Then into an oxygen or electric arc furnace before being hot or cold rolled,even cast into shape? The main control was how "hard" the steel was often by varying the carbon conten? The steel was often brittle and would break instead of bending at yield pressure?

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Alberta Mike

06-26-2004 16:09:20




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 Re: Re: Drilling or welding old steel !! in reply to Carla, 06-26-2004 14:53:24  
Actually Carla, I am referring to just plain old mild steel like angle iron, thicker sheet metal, etc. and not the types you mentioned. My experience with welding and drilling that stuff has been less than great. Maybe steel is like humans, gets less forgiving when old.



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Davis In SC

06-26-2004 18:31:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Drilling or welding old steel !! in reply to Alberta Mike, 06-26-2004 16:09:20  
Mike, some alloys do tend to get harder with age. I have also had difficulty drilling old metal, old bed rails make great angle iron, but they are rough on a drill bit! I think one of the biggest problems with old metal is the rust tends to dull the bit as you start drilling. Even if you wire brush it, the oxide coating is harder than the parent metal. Regards, Davis



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Neil

06-26-2004 22:53:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Drilling or welding old steel !! in reply to Davis In SC, 06-26-2004 18:31:38  
I'm from Missouri!



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