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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Anyone ever added a turbo to a tractor?

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Hound

03-05-2004 18:24:55




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Has anyone out there ever added some type of turbo to a non-turboed tractor? Can this be done safely? Is there any lubrication, wear, stress concerns? Thanks to all. Hound




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Jerry/MT

03-06-2004 16:21:49




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 Re: Anyone ever added a turbo to a tractor? in reply to Hound, 03-05-2004 18:24:55  
Hound,

I don't know whether you are talking about adding a turbo to a gas or a diesel engine, but in either case it is not just a bolt it on and off you go proposition. In either case, the loads on the engine increase substantially.

In the case of a spark ignition (gas) engine,the overall pressure ratio and the compressed gas temperature are limited by the fuel due to detonation. (As one of the other writers said, reduce compression ratio pistons are required.)Some time water/alchohol injection after the compressor is used to evaporatively cool the charge and prevent detonation. Also the gasoline engine will only burn in a rather narrow range of fuel air ratio, so precise fuel/air ratio control is required.

In the case of the diesel, the range of allowable fuel air ratios is much greater and is generally limited by peak temperature on the piston crown. The cooling requirements of the engine are greatly increased over a naturally aspirated diesel. In general oil is sprayed under the piston crown to cool it and the entire cooling system is upsized to maintain the proper material temperatures of the components.
I won't even address the power transmission requirements that need to be addressed due to increased power and torque.

This is all a long winded explanation on why you shouldn't simply "add a turbo" to a normally aspirated engine. Oh you can, but don't expect it to last long.

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Hound

03-08-2004 05:05:23




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 Re: Re: Anyone ever added a turbo to a tractor? in reply to Jerry/MT, 03-06-2004 16:21:49  
Thanks Fellas. Just wondering. Thanks for all you posts. Hound



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RusselAZ

03-06-2004 07:41:33




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 Re: Anyone ever added a turbo to a tractor? in reply to Hound, 03-05-2004 18:24:55  
Just a story but it has some lesson to it.

Back in the mid 60's I had a cousin who had a well to do grandpa. They had a 560 Farmall that my cousin got to call his own. He put a turbo on it. Was really cool sounding to us teenage farm boys. And it would now pull that 16 ft tandem disc at 7 mph instead of 5. You can imagine how far a one-way can throw dirt at that speed. Anyway, the lesson was that just because the engine could build it up, didn't mean the rear end could keep it to the ground. After the third Differential rebuild, the turbo came off.

I love turbos when the whole machine is designed for them. It's kinda like these aftermarket power chips for diesel pickups today. Just what is the rest of the pickup going to do when you throw another 100 ft lbs of torque and 75 more horsepower at it. Tim Allen syndrome, hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo.

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jdemaris

03-06-2004 06:37:30




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 Re: Anyone ever added a turbo to a tractor? in reply to Hound, 03-05-2004 18:24:55  
You could get into trouble if installing it on a gas engine. It will effective raise the compression ratio, that's why turbos used to be called "altitude compensators." Many gas engines, if factory equipped with a turbo, have lower compression pistons installed then a non-turbo engine. So, these turbocharged engines - when compared to a non-turbo - tend to have less horsepower at low speed, but more at high speeds. The over high compression problems that occur are due to detonation. In modern engines that have electronic engine management, detonation is monitored and computer controlled, so it's not a big issue anymore. With a diesel, the story is a little different. Detonation is not a problem, since the Rudolph Diesel principle is that of "detonation ignition." But, as stated by others, the fuel delivery needs to be increased to benefit. Also, you'll be squeezing more horsepower out of the engine and creating more heat. So, often a better cooling system is needed to compensate, and some engines aren't built heavy/durable enough to handle the extra power. E.g., some engines use conventional square-cut piston rings for naturally aspirated engines, but with turbos they used Keystone rings. As far as lubrication goes, the turbo needs to be tapped into engine full-pressure lubrication. Some applications allow for lubrication even after the engine is shut down. That's because, if you shut off a turbo'd engine, especially if it's running fast, the turbo spins for a long time after the engine stops - so the turbo can burn out from lack of lube. We had some turbos burn out on brand new tractors just from trucking them. Put the tractor on a truck, go down the highway at 70 m.p.h., and the wind blows down the exhaust pipe and spins the turbo and ruins it. That's why the exhaust pipe on a turbo'd engine needs some sort of protection or cover when the machine is being trucked.

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kyhayman

03-05-2004 20:07:30




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 Re: Anyone ever added a turbo to a tractor? in reply to Hound, 03-05-2004 18:24:55  
A turbocharger increases the amount of air present for combustion. By itself it doesnt creat any more power. More fuel is needed to do that. Some tractors will deliver that fuel through the govorner, some need the pump turned up. Any time you do that it increases stress on all internal engine and transmission components and increases heat on the top of the piston. Look at the tractors that use the same engine and transmission in turbo and non turbo models. In most cases you will find the pistons and rings ar emade out of different metals, gears cut stronger, etc. I would look long and hard at what I was asking of the tractor nefore I did it. You may not need more powere you may need more weight or more tractor. Some models will take it better than others.

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RAB

03-06-2004 05:48:51




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 Re: Re: Anyone ever added a turbo to a tractor? in reply to kyhayman, 03-05-2004 20:07:30  
Mainly true. May need a bigger main jet as well or maybe the adjuster would let enough in (not forgetting the gas engines). Suppose it might depend on how much/little boost, and where in the work range.
Adding a turbo does effectively improve power output without extra fuel. A diesel runs really lean anyway, but increasing the effective compression pressure would provide more combustion air (possibility of cleaner combustion) and at a higher temperature due to theoretical adiabatic compression. The useful work done by any fuel is increased by increasing the temperature and pressure differences (before and at the end of the working stroke), so laws of thermodynamics indicate the engine should run more efficiently ie a LITTLE more power for the same fuel.
Even though the exhaust gas kinetic energy, converted in the turbo, is 'free' there are other things like extra lubrication, extra loads on bearings, extra cooling required, etc etc which make fitting a turbo ineffective cost-wise without other changes. For instance you could turbo a 'sea level' tractor for high altitude work (no, not flying!), but it is so much easier/cheaper to raise the compression ratio by milling the head!
Just a few cranky thoughts to muddy the waters and perhaps demonstrate that all sorts of things are theoretically possible, but not necessarily sensibly practical!!
Regards, RAB

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