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Robbery - long

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dhermesc

02-27-2004 13:45:06

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Saw the post about the stolen M below and was reminded of an incident just south of Emporia KS last week.

Old man that lives much (or exactly) like a hermit along 99 Highway got took the law (or a 2X4) in his own hands. His house has no power and hasn't seen paint since the Truman Administration - looks totally abandoned. He went to eat his supper in town and returned to find to women in his home robbing the place. One of the women decided to fight it out and pick up a board and threw it at him. The man, about 65-70, picked up the board and proceeded to beat the ever lasting H*** out of both of them with it. One staggered to the highway and a car stopped thinking she had been in a car wreck.

Police where called and quickly sorted it out but still kept the old man in custody overnight (where going to try and charge him with something or another). The two women ran a antique dealership in Missouri and where breaking into abandoned houses looking for stuff to steal and resell. Both suffered from numerous broked bones and the like and where arrested upon their release from the hospital.

Equipment and furniture seems to disappear from deserted farmsteads real quick anymore. Need a few more stories like the one above to slow down that kind of activity.

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RayP(MI)

02-29-2004 18:38:27

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Re: Robbery - long in reply to dhermesc, 02-27-2004 13:45:06

First of all, let me tell you all that in Michigan, you cannot use deadly force to try to protect property - can only use deadly force to protect in life threatening, or serious injury cases. Then you'd better be sure that you can convince TWO juries! The first jury will be the criminal jury where they want to put you in jail for life, the second jury will want to take everything you ever owned, and hope to own, 'cause you took the life of their completely innocent loved one. (Just took the CCW course - I know!)

Latest theivery I'm smarting about was a guy who was running a 12 county crime spree. They've linked him to at least 50 church and school breakins. Stealing primarily cash and computers. When they raided his place, he had numerous computers he was going to "recondition" and resell. Where'd he learn the computer stuff??? - IN PRISION! ! 'Nuff said?

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Wayne

02-28-2004 19:51:49

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Re: Robbery - long in reply to dhermesc, 02-27-2004 13:45:06

After reading some of the posts about the way the law is treating the victim it sounds like we're gonna have to start treating criminals who are threatening and terrorizing us just like many of ya'll suggest we do with animals caught destroying or terrorizing us..... Shoot, Shovel and Shutup..... Just my .02

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I agree

02-29-2004 06:10:40

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Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to Wayne, 02-28-2004 19:51:49

Only problem is... critter's don't leave the car sitting at the end of the driveway.

They go out as unnoticed as they came in.

Now if you had a backhoe, buried the car with em in it, and said must be a big sink hole..... ..... ....

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Bill Smith

02-28-2004 10:58:38

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Re: Robbery - long in reply to dhermesc, 02-27-2004 13:45:06

A farmstead that is known or appears to be abanded or deserted is sure to be hit by thieves. Seen it happen myself time and time again in my area. I myself am guilty of being nosey and walking through abandoned farmstead buildings, excetra while out hunting and so on. Walked through a number of houses that were pretty delapitated (nobody lived in for years). I can't remember actually ever taking a single thing (not that I would, but thieves had most likely already cleaned out everything that was there to get in most cases). I have seen alot of neat house floor plans and some really neat old barns. I believe a very high percentage of people would admit to doing the same thing if they were honest. Makes a guy wonder what percentage of those people would take something, which would make them a thief. I bet it would be a high figure percentage as well. I bet if the truth be known, most of the people posting here can tell a story of themselves going through a building or perhaps even taking something. I hate to rattle on here, but this is the reality of farmsteads being a very high risk for theft. Farmsteads also are generally in a remote area, which just adds fuel to the fire. Sounds like these two women are just out and out robbers. Glad to here the old feller got the chance to wack em around. Hope he don't get into trouble for it. Nothing worse than a thief. Even a lier is better than a thief.

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Jimmy King

02-29-2004 12:29:42

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Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to Bill Smith, 02-28-2004 10:58:38

The question is did you have permission to be on that property???

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Bill Smith

03-01-2004 14:25:03

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Re: Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to Jimmy King, 02-29-2004 12:29:42

Always got permission to go on the property to fish or hunt or whatever. That is kind of getting to be a big No No in my area to not have permission to hunt or fish and go anyways. For #1 the road hunters and pochers got all the landowners mad, and #2 alot of ground is getting leased out for private hunting and fishing rights, or #3 leased out in the public hunting or fishing program which those places right now are generally getting hit pretty hard if they are worth going to (don't really want to go someplace that is getting hunted or fished everyday).

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Davis In SC

02-28-2004 05:19:06

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Re: Robbery - long in reply to dhermesc, 02-27-2004 13:45:06

Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6....

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Dirthog

02-28-2004 04:43:55

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Re: Robbery - long in reply to dhermesc, 02-27-2004 13:45:06

The second she threw the board at him it was assualt with a deadly weapon.
Around these parts running them off and letting the law handle it is the same as letting them go.
Nine out of ten folks around here will shoot you if they catch you in their house, myself included.

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Mark

02-28-2004 05:40:17

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Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to Dirthog, 02-28-2004 04:43:55

Make sure their feet are inside the door when finished.

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DaveInMI

02-28-2004 03:54:52

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Re: Robbery - long in reply to dhermesc, 02-27-2004 13:45:06

About 35 years ago I was an insignificant witness at a pretrial hearing southwest of Emporia. A well respected rancher shot (with a 30-06) his son-in-law through the screen door of the rancher's back porch. His daughter was having serious marital/divorce problems with her husband. The son-in-law was not armed but the rancher thought that he was(might be) armed. It did not go to trial. Have attitudes changed that much in the Flinthills?

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HillBilly in Vegas

02-27-2004 23:19:54

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Re: Robbery - long in reply to dhermesc, 02-27-2004 13:45:06

I'm just a simple Hillbilly from the mountains of Tennessee. Unfortunately, I chose an Engineering profession that keeps me as a nomadic most of the time and away from my farm and JD tractors. Last year, while on a job in Washington state, a farmhouse in my rural TN community was burglarized. The thief (or thieves) stole everything in the house, including the bed sheets. I procured my concealed carry permit about 6 years ago and was indoctrinated with the "use of deadly force" laws set forth by my home state of Tennessee and I now know when to "legally" use deadly force and when not to . . . Well, the line of demarcation from human laws and human nature is a fine line. I had to draw my .38 pistol and exercise my right to bear arms the very FIRST weekend I was in Las Vegas. I wonder what I would have done if that would have been MY house being burglarized? Human laws, . . . . or human nature?

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Todd in southern Indiana

02-27-2004 20:09:27

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Re: Robbery - long in reply to dhermesc, 02-27-2004 13:45:06

Being in the carpenter businness myself. If she would have thrown a 2x4 at me I might have answered back with my Pasload nail gun. You know just to help them out.

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Krazyfarmer

02-27-2004 19:58:59

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Re: Robbery - long in reply to dhermesc, 02-27-2004 13:45:06

Think you are right (in most states) Jim. I;ll take my chances at shooting and answering questions later. Make My Day!

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JD Doug

02-27-2004 18:51:19

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Re: Robbery - long in reply to dhermesc, 02-27-2004 13:45:06

I suggest we pin a Brownie Button on the Ol' Mans chest and hold a parade in his honor!

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John Ramey

02-27-2004 17:57:51

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Re: Robbery - long in reply to dhermesc, 02-27-2004 13:45:06

My thought is the Old Man give those two thieving hags what they deserve, regardless of it being right or wrong.

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Rauville

02-27-2004 17:38:17

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Re: Robbery - long in reply to dhermesc, 02-27-2004 13:45:06

Had a fellow in my antique shop awhile back, and after he bought a few things, he proceeded to tell me that " he was going to get sentenced the next week". "Oh", I asked, "what for?" He told me, "For taking things out of old farmhouses, and selling them on eBay". He continued: "Why, some of those houses were'nt even locked, and now those farmers think that old stuff is worth something. If they wanted it that bad, they should have taken it themselves." Boy...It's hard to argue with bonehead logic like that!!!!! !!

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JDK

02-27-2004 14:00:02

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Re: Robbery - long in reply to dhermesc, 02-27-2004 13:45:06

Gonna catch heck for this,but the old man MAY have been"in the wrong".A person can only use deadly force in defense of LIFE.Though they were stealing property from the old feller,her throwin a board at him"probably" would not fly as an imminent threat to his life.We DO have a legal right to defend our property and ourselves and kin.However the law only justifys a minimum level of force needed to overcome the threat.For example,if you kill someone who enters your home/property,you'd better be able to convince a jury that you were in fear of your own death.If you confront a prowler and they run off,there is no imminent threat,so no use of deadly force is justified.These gals were no doubt in the wrong,however attacking them,instead of running them off and calling the law was not the proper response.

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Don L C

02-29-2004 19:31:36

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Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to JDK, 02-27-2004 14:00:02

He was defending himself...two agenst one and they started it by throwing a board at him....a hit in the head ,his age could have killed him..... I would take his case.....

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Terry Nelson

02-28-2004 10:01:48

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Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to JDK, 02-27-2004 14:00:02

You're probably legally correct-or at least that may have been the politically correct thing to do. He should have waited until she picked up another object to throw at him, after having missed with the lumber, and then beat her brains out!

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Greywolf

02-28-2004 04:25:19

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Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to JDK, 02-27-2004 14:00:02

We used to run a 1000 head feedlot. Permanent loading chute open to the yard.

Local sheriff running for relection came around (it's the only time you see them around here, county line splits the farm in two). Asked if we found a truck parked at the chute at 2 in the morning what rights we had.

Sheriff mentioned that IF we were to put a round from the .308 through the hood/block of the truck, we best be sure there was a critter in it before we called the sheriff.

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John K

02-27-2004 19:18:41

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Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to JDK, 02-27-2004 14:00:02

He did not initiate the attack from what I read. Be thankfull that you don't live in Canada, if a person breaks into my home we are told not to resist even if he wants to rape my wife. I gess I am supposed to sell popcorn or something. We are told not to increase the chance of violence. With an attitude like that it is no wonder that criminals are getting more bold. The criminals here have more rights than the victims. Now that stabbings and knifings are on the rise over the use of guns, they might have to start putting seial no. on knives, hammers, baseball bats and so on so that they can be registered. Remember that water flowes where there is the least resistance, the same goes for criminals.

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Crazyfarmer Oklahoma

02-28-2004 06:51:14

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Re: Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to John K, 02-27-2004 19:18:41

I know this all my neighbors have been robbed in the last 5 years except us. I even have a sign at the end of my driveway giving a warning that any surviors will be prosucuted. So far I have only had to shoot 2 people for coming in and trying to steel something. I feel that if you shoot enough of them that the rest learn to leave you alone. Besides the advantage of being rulled crazy by the government is even if I am wrong I only spend 30 to 90 days in a hospital for rehabilation. There is also the other choice, shoot them and start up the feed grinder, the hogs don't even notice a difference in their feed.

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Mark

02-28-2004 05:50:07

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Re: Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to John K, 02-27-2004 19:18:41

You're going to have to put a lock on those knives so that you can't get them out (bare the blade) unless you know the unlocking code..... ..... ..... Ok, I'm under attack, I need to protect myself as a burgular has drawn down on me...I'm a state of extreme shock and excitement....my heart is pounding ...ahdrealin racing..... ..... now what the heck was that code?

That's the way it is with guns around here plus if one of your grandchildren find one of your guns and shoots something, it's your skin hanging.

Mark

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Terry H

02-28-2004 04:47:42

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Re: Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to John K, 02-27-2004 19:18:41

I know what you're talking about. A few years ago a guy I know who ran a "general store" a couple of miles from my parent's summer home in NW Ontario woke up to find 2 people burglarizing the store. He grabbed a .410 shotgun and went to investigate. When he went in the store, one of the theives pointed a 12 Guage at him. The store owner blasted him with the .410, only wounding him.

By the time the OPP were done, the burglars were released and the store owner was jailed.

The only charges laid were against the store owner!

Crazy!!!

Terry H

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02-28-2004 04:18:39

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Re: Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to John K, 02-27-2004 19:18:41

AFTER VISITING CANADA A FEW TIMES-SELLING POPCORN MIGHT BE A LITTLE HARD CONSIDERING THE TAX RATE THAT WOULD LIKELY BE INVOLVED. SORRY JUST HAD TO BE A SMART _____

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Warm in Texas

02-27-2004 17:32:46

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Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to JDK, 02-27-2004 14:00:02

In some states, that is correct. Don't throw a board at anyone IN THEIR OWN HOUSE in Texas unless you want to be a long term resident in one of our fine cemeteries. ]

These "ladies" were commiting a felony.

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Fawteen

02-27-2004 17:29:45

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Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to JDK, 02-27-2004 14:00:02

I actually typed up a long, detailed response to your position, but I condensed it to this:

You are, of course, correct. In this day and age, criminals have more rights than citizens, and it's a miracle the old man didn't get a stiff sentence.

I honestly think it would be better if it were not so. If first time petty criminals got the livin' slime beat out of them by their "victims", there'd be a lot fewer professional criminals. The ones that didn't learn from their first experience wouldn't live long enough to go pro.

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Mark

02-28-2004 05:57:48

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Re: Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to Fawteen, 02-27-2004 17:29:45

Well folks, let's put things in perspective. I opened the local phone book the other day, the yellow page part, under the heading "Attorneys". There were 5, that's FIVE pages (8.5 x 11") in fine print of said folks. If that doesn't explain the current situation then what does? I used to think to be an elected official you had to be one so that you could understand the legal gibberish.....well I soon realized that elected officials are the ones making the laws.....boy was my brain installed backwards.

(Ducking the obvious flak to be forthcoming I'm sure.)

Mark

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Joe (Wa)

02-27-2004 17:25:57

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Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to JDK, 02-27-2004 14:00:02

"attacking them,instead of running them off and calling the law was not the proper response".

Well, yes it is the PROPER response, just not a LEGAL response.

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Fawteen - Dang

02-27-2004 17:30:57

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Re: Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to Joe (Wa), 02-27-2004 17:25:57

You said what I meant in one sentence.

Thanks...

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T_Bone

02-27-2004 17:17:48

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Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to JDK, 02-27-2004 14:00:02

Hi JDK,

When the scum threw the 2x4 at the guy, I would think that would self defense. Both scums had there chance too leave before the man was forced defend himself.

Why they arrested the homeowner is beyond me. If he had made it a "one" sided story there wouldn't have been a problem.

T_Bone

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Bart

02-28-2004 03:58:58

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Re: Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to T_Bone, 02-27-2004 17:17:48

Right on T-Bone

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greenbeanman

02-27-2004 15:53:38

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Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to JDK, 02-27-2004 14:00:02

While I value human life, I certainly think a few more Judge Roy Beans would help check the rampant crime that takes place.

I expect that the old fellow was certainly in the wrong by Kansas law, however I think he should get a medal instead of being charged for something.

I'd sure like to give him a hearty handshake and tell him that I'd be proud to call him friend.

A Wichita couple were robbed a few weeks back. They responded by purchasing a handgun a few days later. Some two weeks or so after the original incident, someone began breaking the door down to gain entry. The husband ran in the other room to get the gun and got back in time to fire at the intruder as he was leveling a shotgun at the misses. While the husband didn't kill the guy--well he did leave rather hurriedly.

A car jacking took place this week over at Wichita. Everything was going as the car jacker intended--well that is until he started dragging the 63 year old woman around. This ticked off the 67 year old husband who tackled the guy. I don't know all of the details, but the good guys won once again and the police arrested the guy.

Yipee, I love stories when the good guys win and the bad guys lose.

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02-28-2004 04:15:43

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Re: Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to greenbeanman, 02-27-2004 15:53:38

HE WAS THE JUDGE THAT SAT ON THE TRIAL OF 2 THEIVES???? THE JURY CAME BACK INNOCENT AND HE TOLD THEM THEY BETTER GO BACK AND THINK ABOUT IT A WHILE LONGER-HE HUNG EM 30 MINUTES AGO

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Dick2

02-27-2004 15:15:56

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Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to JDK, 02-27-2004 14:00:02

Well then, I guess it is time to change those laws. And if their lawyer shows up, he gets a does too.

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Jim

02-27-2004 14:10:50

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Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to JDK, 02-27-2004 14:00:02

I am not sure what the law in Kansas is, but in most states, if you are in your home, you have the right to use whatever force is necessary including deadly force to defend yourself and your home from an intruder. It is not necessary to prove that you were in fear for your life. If the intruder attacked the homeowner, she is paid for.

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John

02-27-2004 14:17:55

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Re: Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to Jim, 02-27-2004 14:10:50

Same around here. It is a common joke in our area that if some one comes in your yard and you defend your self pull him in the house before you call police.

In this case I would think that since the woman threw a board at him that is attacking him and he is only defending him self in his own home. There was two of them and he is 60-70 years old.

Or do you think she threw him the board TO him because she thought she should give him a fighting chance.

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Mark

02-28-2004 06:02:49

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to John, 02-27-2004 14:17:55

NOW you are talking like a defense attorney....

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jim

02-27-2004 14:42:37

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to John, 02-27-2004 14:17:55

Like the old Amish farmer said when he discovered his home being robbed "Friend, I would not hurt thee for all the tea in China --- but Thou standeth in the spot where I'm about to shoot!!"

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Brian G.

02-27-2004 17:45:02

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to jim, 02-27-2004 14:42:37

Jim, I got a kick out of that!! Reminds me of an Alleged Quaker saying my mother gave me when I was a Kid. Jason, I sometimes think everyone in the world is a bit queer but me and thou..... ..and sometimes I'm not so sure about thou.

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tom

02-27-2004 21:15:22

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to Brian G., 02-27-2004 17:45:02

If you think going and taking things from old house is on the rise. be sure to watch as fuel keep going up and up. you will be up half night watching your fuel barrels or you will go out to the field where your tractor was or is and find it out of fuel or gone.As it is just a sign of the times.

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70 plowboy

02-29-2004 04:15:25

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Robbery - long in reply to tom, 02-27-2004 21:15:22

I think the guy was in the right did he even have a phone to call the law with ??
HE left them alive alot more than most would do its not like after the one crawled away he keep beating the other one the old man should get a medal YES the laws need a changing a thief just being in your home isnt enough they have to be stealing or have a wepon on them FAR AS IM CONCERND YOU BREAK IN YOUR HISTORY !!!!! !!

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