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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

NH3 TANKS and PROPANE

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bill

12-06-2003 20:49:03




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ANYONE HAD ANT EXPERIENCE SWITCHING NH# TANK TO USE PROPANE????? ??




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Bob F

12-07-2003 09:27:11




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 Re: NH3 TANKS and PROPANE in reply to bill, 12-06-2003 20:49:03  
It's been quite a while since I personally delivered LP or did LP related service work, but I'm pretty sure that the valves have to switched from the steel ones on the NH3 tanks to brass ones for L.P. From what I remember about it, by the time the tank is fully purged and you change the valves over, it is about as cheap to buy a new L.P. tank (and a helluva lot safer)



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stan

12-07-2003 08:52:49




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 Re: NH3 TANKS and PROPANE in reply to bill, 12-06-2003 20:49:03  
What is NH3



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Chris-se-ILL

12-07-2003 19:36:22




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 Re: Re: NH3 TANKS and PROPANE in reply to stan, 12-07-2003 08:52:49  
NH3 is also know as Anhydrous Ammonia (the word anhydrous means "without water"). The chemical make up of anhydrous ammonia... is one atom of Nitrogen bonded to 3 atoms of Hydrogen. This NH3 chemical molecule is 82% nitrogen and 18% hydrogen (the atomic weight of the nitrogen is 82% of the weight of the molecule).

NH3 (which is a compressed gas that is in liquid form) is usually injected into the ground, where the nitrogen will then be present for utilization by the growing crop.

It is not a good idea for the average person to use NH3 containers for propane or vise-a-versa. There can be some major problem (i.e. disasters), which I will not go into here.

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gene b

12-07-2003 14:08:37




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 Re: Re: NH3 TANKS and PROPANE in reply to stan, 12-07-2003 08:52:49  
NH3 is 82% nitrogen used as fertilizer and injected into the ground.



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RAB

12-07-2003 11:20:44




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 Re: Re: NH3 TANKS and PROPANE in reply to stan, 12-07-2003 08:52:49  
Stan, As john said, lower down, it is ammonia. The sort of stuff they put in domestic cleaners, - only in this case it is 100% ammonia, not the small addition to smell 'clean' and give the cleaner a pH value of 'fairly alkaline'. Or the strong smell of horse or cow peeeee !
At school they probably mixed hydrochloric acid fumes with 0.880 ammonia solution fumes to create an acrid white smoke (until things like that were banned on safety grounds).
Liquid ammonia is used in large scale refrigeration plants, among other things.
Regards,RAB

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Roger

12-07-2003 08:11:31




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 Re: NH3 TANKS and PROPANE in reply to bill, 12-06-2003 20:49:03  
What John says is correct. You need to be sure the
tank has been purged. AA will damage the LP safety
devices. If you mix AA with the LP the fumes from
burning can be dangerous. You definatly need to
change valves. The AA valves are usually in bad
condition. Check with your LP supplier first. A
lot of LP dealers will not fill them due to over
zealous scum sucking, worthless, no good, crooked,
back stabbing, ambulance chasing low life. If your
dealer will not fill an AA tank, don't get mad
about it. He may have had the same experiance I've
had. I spent 4 days in court defending myself
because I did not tell a customeer - Do not shoot
the 5 gallon LP bottle on your grill with a 38
caliber pistol when you are drunk. It's a good
thing breathing is natural, or some people would
never survive.

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Scum sucking low life

12-07-2003 13:48:41




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 Re: Re: NH3 TANKS and PROPANE in reply to Roger, 12-07-2003 08:11:31  
I fail to see the relationship here but am very interested in the outcome, both of the slug connecting with the pressuresed container and how you fared in court.



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Roger

12-07-2003 21:26:02




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 Re: Re: Re: NH3 TANKS and PROPANE in reply to Scum sucking low life, 12-07-2003 13:48:41  
This happened 15 years ago. My company got off
with out a fine. However, I do keep a framed copy
at the bottle filling station of the Jury's order
to inform people that shooting an LP bottle with a
gun is dangerous. As for the relationship of
Lawyers, Courts, Jury's and Uncle Sam. A lot of LP
dealers are unwilling to take ANY chance. AA tanks
are better built than LP tanks. But that will not
keep an LP dealer from getting sued. If you are
still using the old 200 lb. working pressure or
hand welded tanks an Insurance company does not
have to honor its policy for any claim.12 years
ago a grass fire burned a Mobile home here in
Kansas. The old 200 lb. tank survived and never
gave any trouble. The insurance adjuster noticed
the tank and the Insurance company did not have to
pay the claim since the tank was not legal. It was
a loophole that the Insurance company used. I keep
thinking that after 35 years I have seen it all,
but I haven't. Some people will sue over anything.
I attend an LP Gas safety meeting every month and
I am still amazed at the dumb things people do. LP
Gas is a very safe product. It is safe because it
is so closely regulated. Your LP Gas dealer may
not fill an AA tank as a matter of self defense.
My personal opinion is - if you are so stupid you
shoot a 5 gallon LP bottle with a gun, drunk or
sober, you are to stupid to be alive.

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Interesting

12-08-2003 10:33:25




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: NH3 TANKS and PROPANE in reply to Roger, 12-07-2003 21:26:02  
Well Roger, I would like to talk more about this with regard to working pressures and approved tanks, propane vs cng, butane vs propane and the difference between propane and lpg, if any etc. Ray Chrispens
25398 Av 92
Terra Bella, CA
5595355369



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RayP(MI)

12-07-2003 15:51:59




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 Re: Re: Re: NH3 TANKS and PROPANE in reply to Scum sucking low life, 12-07-2003 13:48:41  
Well, I can't tell you how scum's situation came out - but I can tell you what we tried one time. Had been given an obsolete 20# propane tank that we estimated to be half full. Even the propane dealer didn't have a fitting to fit it, to drain it! Took it to a gravel pit, and punctured it with several rounds from a 300 Weatherby Mag. FROM A GREAT DISTANCE! Propane gas vented through the holes and formed a white cloud. It never ignited, and took quite a while for the contents of the tank to evaporate, and vent. (Was a cold day.) DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!

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bob

12-07-2003 06:23:17




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 Re: NH3 TANKS and PROPANE in reply to bill, 12-06-2003 20:49:03  
have been told that nh will rust from inside out so really don,t know condition of tank propane will only rust from outside . I am replacing my prop[ane that is 50 years old but supplier tried to talk me out of it but I was renting it and wanted to own so can buy anywhere



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John (C-IL)

12-07-2003 05:10:46




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 Re: NH3 TANKS and PROPANE in reply to bill, 12-06-2003 20:49:03  
I used to be a propane delivery/service man. The NH3 tank must be completely empty and preferably purged. This can be done by taking a shop vac and hooking it to an EMPTY tank and blowing air through it. The most impotant thing saftey wise is to have the proper outlet valve and saftey relief valve installed. The ammonia valves have higher pressure settings and higher excess flow shut off ratings. The excess flow shut off rating for LP is .7 to 1.2 GPM the excess flow rating for NH3 is about 10 GPM, you can see that his would cause a significant problem if there was a line break. If this is going to be a permanent installation you also need to fashion a cover for the valve area that does not cover the relief valve or provides an opening for the relief valve to vent.

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