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Non- original manuals

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Slowpoke

12-05-2003 11:45:57

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I will no longer buy manuals from sellers on Ebay unless they are ORIGINAL factory manuals. I believe they are being made on copy machines and the photos are almost unuseable, and as they say, "a picture is worth a thousand words" I recently was dissapointed with an AC manual I received from an individual; it's held together with two staples and the photos are just as poor as the ones from Case/IH. I guess it will be that Binder outfit in Oregon or used originals.

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Tom

12-06-2003 07:45:40

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Re: Non- original manuals in reply to Slowpoke, 12-05-2003 11:45:57

Slowpoke, I agree with you 100%. I have 3 original manuals for all my tractors, all purchased new from the dealers. Some people don't understand why you need all 3 (Operator, Repair, and Parts) but I find that the Operator is a very handy reference for how things work, capacities, etc. Repair manual has all the technicl steps to complete a repair. Parts manual has 2 uses: greatly quickens ordering/buying parts (double check part numbers), and sometimes the absolute detail in the exploded views are critical to reassembly. Some tightwads just will not invest in good manuals, and then they are the first to cry around the coffee shop about expensive repairs; many of which could have been avoided with the manuals. My 3 cents.

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rustyfarmall

12-05-2003 17:55:59

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Re: Non- original manuals in reply to Slowpoke, 12-05-2003 11:45:57

I agree with you, and what about those people who are putting the manuals onto a cd? How handy is it going to be to drag the computer out to the shop?

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Wayne

12-05-2003 20:11:58

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Re: Re: Non- original manuals in reply to rustyfarmall, 12-05-2003 17:55:59

Hey Rusty, many of the manufacturers are now putting their manuals on CD, and are trying their best to get completely away from the paper ones. One of the biggest ones I know of is CAT. The CAT service guys around here all carry laptops in their trucks now. It's good in a way because as thick as some of these manuals are getting with all the electronics you can carry everything you need for several machines, and then some, on one disc. Heck for the 50 series Detroit in my service truck the manuals I have for it make a stack over 12" tall, add in the Alllison transmission manuals and it grows to over 2 feet, and I DON'T have all of them yet. Funny thing the computer stuff is the reason there are so many manuals, and so many manuals is one of the reasons for the computer versions, so it's just a vicious circle when it comes to computers invading the industry. The computer stuff can be good til your up to your elbows in hydraulic oil or grease, and then it would tend to be a bit messy. Still if you have a printer, and the disc is formatted correctly, you can print out any of the pages you need. If you mess up a page, simply reprint it, you don't have to buy another manual just because your only/origional copy got too dirty to read..... Personally I like paper manuals best, but the CD versions do have their advantages as much as us old school guys want to knock the new technology. Just my .02....

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RWK in WI

12-06-2003 05:58:23

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Re: Re: Re: Non- original manuals in reply to Wayne, 12-05-2003 20:11:58

Both of the CD manuals that I bought for my tractors will not allow you to print any of the pages. That is very anoying when you want to take a copy of an assembly out to the shop or out to the field where there is no power for the computer.
Be careful what you get.

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Slowpoke

12-06-2003 10:45:16

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Non- original manuals in reply to RWK in WI, 12-06-2003 05:58:23

Wayne... All the ones I've seen say you can print pages at will. If the seller advertised that, ask him if there is some hidden special method to access the print function. If not, ask for a refund.
To other CD manual users: Sears uses the computer to access parts drawings, and the pictures are not all that clear. The smaller the part, the harder it is to determine what it is.
What quality are the CD photos and drawings on your moniter?? What quality do you get when you print photos and drawings?

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Wayne

12-06-2003 21:37:28

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Non- original manuals in reply to Slowpoke, 12-06-2003 10:45:16

Hey Slowpoke, I agree with you 100% on the quality of most of the drawings. If you have a good quality printer though you should get at least the same quality print as you have on the screen. The biggest thing that causes problems, from what I've seen and understand of the technology, is that the mfgs., or who ever, are putting this stuff online, or on disc, using "one specific program" (this may not be the right terminology but I don't know how else to say it) , and if you don't have acess to the same program they are using then it will cause major problems. In with this are things like not being able to isolate and zoom in on details to print them specifically, not being able to fit the complete pic on the page, etc etc etc. This all comes down to what I said about the thing being formatted correctly from the start. If the stuff is scanned in properly and formatted corectly then the quality of the finished product both onscreen and in print should be as "factory quality" as a normal paper manual. The technology is there if somebody just takes the time and expense to do it right. Regardless of any of this though, like I said, I agree with all of you on the whole deal. Unlike alot of guys on this forum who mainly operate their equipment and do some maintenance to it, I work on just about anything that walks or crawles for a living. In the past 3 months I've worked on everything from a 71B Bucyrus Erie dragline to a little Speedaire air compressor, and a whole bunch of stuff in between. I much prefer paper manuals and have probably 500+ of them, but at 35 years old I, unfortunately, see what the future is bringing and am trying to come to terms with it and figure out how to live with it as best I can. If it means having to bite the bullet embrase some of the new technology and learn how to use it and manipulate it to my advantage then I'll do what I have to do to maintain access to the information that I need for my job available to me. Take care. Wayne

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