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Welding Cast Iron

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stan

12-05-2003 00:49:58

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I need to repair a hole in the pan on my 3 cyl perkins. It is cast iron. I have some rod which says to heat the part to 400 F. I thought about making a fire and heating the pan that way. Like roasting a pig.I am concearned about the pan warping from the heat. Then I found dome rod that is for cold welding cast iron it is called Certalloy 880. Any help will be great. Even better will be a used pan.

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Tom Weld

10-23-2006 10:52:53

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Re: Welding Cast Iron in reply to stan, 12-05-2003 00:49:58

Certalloy 880 cast iron alloy
800-231-2686

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Tom Weld

10-23-2006 10:50:05

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Re: Welding Cast Iron in reply to stan, 12-05-2003 00:49:58

Certalloy 880 cast iron alloy
800-231-2686

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Ross

12-05-2003 16:43:03

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Re: Welding Cast Iron in reply to stan, 12-05-2003 00:49:58

Stan, my father( who's a steam/pipefitter by trade, 40 years experience) welded a cast iron Oliver mainframe that broke near in half back together for someone this summer. He used certainium 889sp($50 a pound I think?) and an old Lincoln stick welder. I believe certalloy owns certainium. Dad was able to weld the cast cold as long he didn't do too much at once. I think the job turned out well but Dad had trouble starting the weld at times.
Ross

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Heat Houser

12-05-2003 13:18:37

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Re: Welding Cast Iron in reply to stan, 12-05-2003 00:49:58

I rememember reading somewhere that John Deere's procedure to repair cast iron was to grind a groove down both sides of the crack, leaving the iron next to the crack undisturbed, and then weld it with E7018 rod. Pre and post heat (before and after welding) to relieve stresses.
I have used this procedure to weld up an IH560 gas exhaust manifold with good success.

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Dieselrider

12-05-2003 16:08:19

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Re: Re: Welding Cast Iron in reply to Heat Houser, 12-05-2003 13:18:37

I didn't know there was a procedure written anywhere but, I was in a fix once with a broken moldboard and used 7018 rod with an ac welder to fix. I couldn't get the moldboard for a couple weeks so I figured I didn't have much to loose. The temporary fix is still on the plow and the new moldboard is in the shed. It's been a couple of years. If it were my oil pan I'd preheat weld with the 7018 and set the whole thing in warm sand to cool very slowly. The stick welding would be alot cooler than oxy/acet.

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T_Bone

12-05-2003 05:18:58

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Re: Welding Cast Iron in reply to stan, 12-05-2003 00:49:58

Hi Stan,

Are you sure it's cast iron and not cast steel?

Take a grinder and cut a grove in a piece of regular mild steel angle/plate then cut a small area in the pan (easy to weld area) then compare the grain structure and the spark color. They will look close to the same if it's cast steel.

I've never seen a Perkins oil pan, so before I can suggest anything, give me an idea of how thick the material is and how large of a hole?

If a large hole then do you have the piece that came out?

Since the oil pan has no pressure it should be an easy repair.

T_Bone

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stan

12-05-2003 13:50:26

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Re: Re: Welding Cast Iron in reply to T_Bone, 12-05-2003 05:18:58

The oil pan is 1/4 in thick the hole is 1 1/2X 3 I dont have the piece, the tractor came that way, with the hole. I was told I can use plane iron for the patch. What do you think?

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george md

12-05-2003 14:36:17

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Re: Re: Re: Welding Cast Iron in reply to stan, 12-05-2003 13:50:26

Stan,

A piece of an old bath tub would work well, I have some pieces laying here if you need it . It would be the same material as the pan .

george

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Fred OH

12-05-2003 08:34:55

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Re: Re: Welding Cast Iron in reply to T_Bone, 12-05-2003 05:18:58

That's easy...spark test...the cast iron sparks will be orange and the steel sparks will be yellow.
I never saw a cast steel oil pan...always cast iron...cheaper to produce and all it is is a bolt on lid to hold oil in...but because of the diesels vibration it should be torch welded with cast iron rod...(my opinion). Clamp it down to the weld bench if you don't want it to warp. Cool slow with a ceramic wool blanket over it. Another way of telling steel from cast iron is with a hammer and chisel test...steel will make a full curl chip...cast will break brfore curling. Fred OH

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george md

12-05-2003 11:26:44

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Re: Re: Re: Welding Cast Iron in reply to Fred OH, 12-05-2003 08:34:55

Fred ,

I agree the pan is cast iron , I have put the ears back on several and acet cast iron is the way to do it . It will definitely need a good preheat ( 800 to 900 deg ) acet weld and post heat to stress relieve and a very slow cool (10 to 12 hrs). the terms cast iron and arc welding should not be used in the same sentence as the are not compatable . Fred what are you using for machinable case iron rod since there is no more airco and harris has changed the formula for the rod ?

george

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Shane

12-05-2003 15:38:57

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Welding Cast Iron in reply to george md, 12-05-2003 11:26:44

If I read your post correctly you say that you can't arc weld cast iron. I am pretty sure that the local weld shop has rod to arc weld cast iron. I beleive it costs about $8 a rod but am almost sure you can weld cast iron. Please correct me if I am wrong, anyone.

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george md

12-05-2003 15:58:44

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Welding Cast Iron in reply to Shane, 12-05-2003 15:38:57

Shane ,

Read more carefully , I didn't say couldn't, I said shouldn't . Reason being that the nickel in the rod contracts at a much greater rate than the case iron causing great amounts of internal stress and in many cases cracks.

george

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Shane

12-06-2003 05:55:38

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Welding Cast Iron in reply to george md, 12-05-2003 15:58:44

I was thinking that they had recently came out with a new rod that you could safely weld cast iron with. Maybe it was cast steel, now I am confused! I'll have to ask next time I am in the weld shop.

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george md

12-06-2003 11:47:26

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Welding Cast Iron in reply to Shane, 12-06-2003 05:55:38

Shane,

Send me an email, I'll send you some pictures
of what acet cast iron can do ,

george

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Steve from Tn

12-05-2003 04:33:59

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Re: Welding Cast Iron in reply to stan, 12-05-2003 00:49:58

Stan, it can definitely be done. I would suggest that you take this to a professional welder who will do it right. This is too important for you to learn on. Another suggestion; go over to Tool Talk and ask for advice. Man by the handle of T_Bone can tell you exactly what you need to do. There are others over there that are experts too.

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Jerry

12-05-2003 15:20:32

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Re: Re: Welding Cast Iron in reply to Steve from Tn , 12-05-2003 04:33:59

Could you make a patch and cover the hole with the patch with thread fasteners and treat the edges with JB weld.

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